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Default Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-10-2017, 04:47 PM

Here are some facts that many people forget when thinking about Moses:

-the number of Israelites leaving Egypt numbered around 2.5 million. Insane numbers.

-there is no archaeological evidence of their crossing. Meaning that the whole thing was so well done that they left no traces.

- a very swift departure to escape Pharaoh's wrath.

- he did this with near-zero management structure or communication lines

A good leader got 2.5 million people out of a country seemingly overnight with minimal supplies, managed to keep them fed and hydrated in the desert while on the move and covered up their tracks to fend off Egyptian scouts. That is absolutely amazing. Probably the most impressive feat ever done.
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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-10-2017, 05:26 PM

Many unsaved wretches deny the genius of Moses and point to the forty years of wandering. We should bear in mind that the Israelites wandered the desert before the invention of the compass. God wanted them to have time for prayerful reflection before they entered the Promised Land.


God judgeth the righteous, And God is angry with the wicked every day- Psalm 7:11
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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-10-2017, 07:25 PM

There can be no doubt our modern management concepts like core values, mission statements and vision statements came directly from Moses. He simply out managed first the Egyptians and later the Canaanites.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-11-2017, 12:11 AM

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Originally Posted by Titus Templeton View Post

A good leader got 2.5 million people out of a country seemingly overnight with minimal supplies, managed to keep them fed and hydrated in the desert while on the move
Please, forgive my confusion; I thought that the Lord kept them fed and watered.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Moss View Post
Many unsaved wretches deny the genius of Moses and point to the forty years of wandering. We should bear in mind that the Israelites wandered the desert before the invention of the compass. God wanted them to have time for prayerful reflection before they entered the Promised Land.


If I may be further forgiven for yet more confusion, I thought that the extended 40 year time line was because the Israelites were bad and God wanted that generation to die out before leading them to exact location of the Promised Land.


One thing that does impress me about Moses and does not confuse me in the least is that Moses wrote the Biblical narrative of his own death while he was still alive. Isn't God amazing?


His left hand should be under my head, and his right hand should embrace me.

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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-11-2017, 01:46 AM

Another of Moses' skills was logistical planning. Because there wasn't much food in the desert, he arranged for God to deliver bread.

Moses went into this thing with a strategic plan and the management moxie to carry it out.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-11-2017, 05:10 AM

He generally listened to his boss and carried out His instructions.

Plus, stoning is a worthy punishment for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.

Numbers 15:33-36
33And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
34And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
35And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
36And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.


Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.



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Jesus Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-11-2017, 05:36 AM

Verily, Moses did almost everything in the manner dictated by God. Had he not trespassed and let his Jewish heritage of endless negotiations shine through, he could this very moment be in Heaven with Jesus. Alas, He failed once and that was more than enough. We know how a single action of disobedience can destroy a lifetime of good service unless a person is washed anew in the Blood of Christ!

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


Where did Mr. Moses fail? As True Christians™, we obviously know the answer. He was supposed to talk soothingly to a rock.

Numbers 20:7-8
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.




What did Mr. Moses do? Instead of trusting God, he used unnecessary force.

Numbers 20:11
And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.

How did God react? In the only manner possible. He punished Mr. Moses most severely!

Numbers 20:12
And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.



This was the pivotal moment. Water pouring out of the rock was a sign of Christ? How do we know that?

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


In fact, Moses stroke Jesus with his rod! Instead of relying on prayer (Matthew 17:20), Moses used violence against sweet innocent baby Jesus. This was the moment when his leadership faltered. The Jews could have chosen Jesus at that very moment but the actions of Moses denied them that opportunity. What becomes of sinners who fail to choose Jesus?

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


After this action of beating up dear Jesus, it was all lost. The Jews had it coming ever since. Eventually, they killed Christ. One moment of faltering distrust, and only us True Christians™ have re-gained that trust.

Verily, Mr. Moses was a great leader but still inferior to a True Christian™ Leader - such as Mr. Trump and Pastor Ezekiel - because he gave Jesus a beating. A True Leader™ is different from a merely competent leader in this crucial aspect.




Yours in Christ,

Elmer


2 Kings 18:25 Am I now come up without the LORD against this place to destroy it? The LORD said to me, Go up against this land, and destroy it.



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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-11-2017, 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Moss View Post
Many unsaved wretches deny the genius of Moses and point to the forty years of wandering. We should bear in mind that the Israelites wandered the desert before the invention of the compass. God wanted them to have time for prayerful reflection before they entered the Promised Land.
This so much. People nowadays can't wait to run from one sin to the next. But God wants us to move slow so we can actually avoid the sin that is running torwards us.
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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-11-2017, 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmer G. White View Post
After this action of beating up dear Jesus, it was all lost. The Jews had it coming ever since. Eventually, they killed Christ. One moment of faltering distrust..
Are you saying that Jesus, the fountainhead of Living Water and the Rock upon which the Church is built, was manifest in this pre-incarnation miracle? In which case would Moses' smiting be the precedent for Jesus being smitten when He was manifest in bodily form? By whipping and being killed.

JOHN 4 . KJV . look up
13
Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-12-2017, 12:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Titus Templeton View Post
This so much. People nowadays can't wait to run from one sin to the next. But God wants us to move slow so we can actually avoid the sin that is running torwards us.
Such good points, brothers. God wants us to be obedient for then will He bless us (Joshua 1:8), and perhaps no historical person really epitomizes obedience more than Moses. I know many people want to look to Job as the champion of obedience. Sure, he never stopped fearing and obeying the LORD as commanded (Ecclesiastes 12:13), but Job didn't have the kinds of responsibilities Moses had. Yeah, yeah, Job lost his wife and children and still praised God, but considering he never once cries about them, can we really assume it was such a loss? Have you ever seen women from the Middle East? They grow up look like their fathers, every last one of them. While Job may have missed the pampering a family man gets used to, the silence was probably more precious than gold to him, and no doubt he had less expenses with fewer teenagers sulking about.

Now Moses had a big job to do. He had to schlep a group of grumbling, complaining, Jewish Princesses, their tuned-out, emasculated husbands, and spoiled rotten children throughout the desert. Not only was he responsible for their health and well being in a desert, he was responsible for the health and well being of all the animals who were brought along to drag all their silver and gold and fine clothes and other treasures (Numbers 7:3). And he had to keep the LORD's wrath in check before all the Israelites were burned (Numbers 11:1) or plagued to death (Exodus 32:35).

As if that wasn't a big enough responsibility, the LORD gave Moses new, very important instructions about worship that had to be obeyed to avoid even more wrath. In leaving Egypt, Yahweh took His Temple on the road, and that meant roadies. Somehow, Moses had to encourage these roadies to do their jobs, which wasn't easy for the Kohathites who had to transport the goods for the Temple from one camp to the next without touching or looking at it. Think about that. That has got to be a tough situation to find yourself in - because of your birth you're a roadie for the Traveling Temple Extravaganza and you not only don't get a career choice, you can't touch or even look at the treasures you have to move safely.

Moses must have had some sweet PR moves to keep from getting tied up and left under a rock. I'll bet United Airlines could use a man like him just about now. Anyway, so imagine all the logistics of just keeping a population of 3 million people, more or less, and their livestock fed and sheltered in a desert without getting bogged down in crime. Apparently the litter laws were very strict, as no one has ever found a trace of their adventures.

That's a tough enough job to have, but one day, the bible tells us, the LORD said to Moses that He wanted to purify the Levites. Under the LORD's direction, Moses has Aaron create some candelabras with a lovely pattern the LORD chose. The next part probably wasn't as simple a request as the LORD wanted Aaron and all the Levites shaved. Entirely. Not just their faces, not just their heads, their legs, arms, eyebrows, etc. Their family jewels would reflect a shiny, polished ball of dung if they did their jobs right, and who do you think was in charge of making sure everyone complied? I don't know but it must have been a thankless task. But, if that's what the LORD wants, that's what the LORD gets. They remembered the last time they didn't obey. Moses made them eat the product of their disobedience (Exodus 32:20).

The LORD was pleased, which makes me wonder if the Levites were paraded around for His approval like some Semitic Full Monty Act, or if He just knew, but it doesn't matter. The point is that the LORD didn't want a hair on their bodies and by God, they removed every last one. Moses couldn't have been popular already, but somehow he convinced them not to kick him in the gonads for not talking God out of that one.

Anyway, after washing their clothes and dressing up, they grabbed a couple young bulls and some wheat and then assembled everyone in the camp in front of the LORD's tent. The bible doesn't tell us just how Moses organized 22,000 freshly scrubbed and shaven/plucked/waxed Levites in front of a crowd roughly the size of Chicago in a space about half the size of a football field, or if there were vendors wandering around selling toys for kids and 100% beef hot dogs for those feeling a bit peckish. Either way, that's some wizardry level organization right there.

Presumably while he's got everyone attention, Moses offers up Aaron and the other Levites as a wave offering unto the LORD. We don't know just how the Levites were set apart with this offering. It may have been done by leading them backwards and forwards in front of the Tabernacle, or by the waving of Aaron’s hands. In either case, it probably wasn't done quickly.

Next, each Levite was to pet both bulls. Another countless hours (days? weeks?) for the congregation to wait for the thousands of Levites to walk through the worlds smallest petting zoo. If Moses wasn't already on a number of hit lists, that would be a miracle.

Keep in mind Aaron is 84 years old a the time, and how he doesn't fall asleep or keel over is pretty remarkable. Moses, like a fabulous Broadway producer, kept the show running smoothly before a crowd six times the size of Woodstock for however long it took. If there were any riots or attempted hits on his life, the bible doesn't say.

However long it took, the sheer magnitude of this one event alone must give the doubter pause. Moses must have been more eloquent than Churchill, more energizing than Hitler, more persuasive perhaps than Jesus. If you don't believe me, check your bible. Numbers, chapter 8.
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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 01:06 PM

My soon to be healthy father actually wanted Moses as one of my middle names. At that time, he had been studying the ancient pharaohs and thought Moses was a really stalwart servant of God, what with his mountain climbing skills and being able to locate tablets that were the perfect shape for inscribing those famous ten rules - twice.


Mother protested and insisted on the tradition of naming me after a saint, so I became Lawrence Joseph Padre Pio Pureheart. I cringed when she would call me Larry Joe PP in front of my friends.


Dad still admires Moses (even at this second, from what was supposed to be his death bed) as one of the most incredible men who walked the face of this earth. And walked, and walked, and walked. When Dad had his 40th birthday, he called it his Moses year. God seems to like 40 for things that involve deserts, rain, writing things on tablets, and exile.


In the Old Testament, when God destroyed the earth with water, He caused it to rain 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 7:12). After Moses killed the Egyptian, he fled to Midian, where he spent 40 years in the desert tending flocks (Acts 7:30). Moses was on Mount Sinai for 40 days and 40 nights (Exodus 24:18). Moses interceded on Israel’s behalf for 40 days and 40 nights (Deuteronomy 9:18, 25). The Law specified a maximum number of lashes a man could receive for a crime, setting the limit at 40 (Deuteronomy 25:3). The Israelite spies took 40 days to spy out Canaan (Numbers 13:25). The Israelites wandered for 40 years (Deuteronomy 8:2-5). Before Samson’s deliverance, Israel served the Philistines for 40 years (Judges 13:1). Goliath taunted Saul’s army for 40 days before David arrived to slay him (1 Samuel 17:16). When Elijah fled from Jezebel, he traveled 40 days and 40 nights to Mt. Horeb (1 Kings 19:8).

The number 40 also appears in the prophecies of Ezekiel (4:6; 29:11-13) and Jonah (3:4).

In the New Testament, Jesus was tempted for 40 days and 40 nights (Matthew 4:2). There were 40 days between Jesus’ resurrection and ascension (Acts 1:3).


40 was also the number of times my cousin Harold had to wash his hands each day, turn the light switch on and off, check the deadbolt lock before leaving, and drive around the parking garage before entering. Unfortunately, he also thought 40 would be a great number of Vicodin to take all at once after having oral surgery, and that didn't work out so well.


Anyway: Go Moses! If there had been football back then, he would have been an amazing QB.


COME, LORD JESUS!
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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 01:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Titus Templeton View Post
Here are some facts that many people forget when thinking about Moses:

-the number of Israelites leaving Egypt numbered around 2.5 million. Insane numbers.

-there is no archaeological evidence of their crossing. Meaning that the whole thing was so well done that they left no traces.

- a very swift departure to escape Pharaoh's wrath.

- he did this with near-zero management structure or communication lines

A good leader got 2.5 million people out of a country seemingly overnight with minimal supplies, managed to keep them fed and hydrated in the desert while on the move and covered up their tracks to fend off Egyptian scouts. That is absolutely amazing. Probably the most impressive feat ever done.
And all of that without a single confirmed case of the anal sexualism.

What a guy! (Good choice Jesus!).

YIC


1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 01:51 PM

I thought Moses was a Jew.
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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 01:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Something-on-my-Paws View Post
I thought Moses was a Jew.
Jesus had not incarnated Himself so the Jews were unable to kill Him yet.

It seem awfully judgemental of you to judge an entire race of people on something they have not yet done.

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. - Luke 17:3

As you can see this is all past tensical.

I shall pray for yours to be more compassionate: like all True Christians™.

YIC


1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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Default Re: Moses, a competent good leader! - 04-12-2017, 02:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Levi Jones View Post
He generally listened to his boss and carried out His instructions.

Plus, stoning is a worthy punishment for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.

Numbers 15:33-36
33And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
34And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
35And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
36And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
I hope those people had the foresight to prep a pile of stones before the Sabbath. If not, then they would have been obliged to stone the people who had gathered the stones. And, come to think of it, wouldn't the effort of throwing stones with intent to kill be considered work on the Sabbath? So, would they all have to stoned to death by some other group of people? Then that group of people would have to be stoned by another group of people. . . Or, maybe executions on the Sabbath (that are, of course, mandated by the LORD) aren't considered work so much as a religious observance? Perhaps God-- with His Infinite Wisdom and Omniscience and Omnipotence-- conveniently placed a whole bunch of stones-- which were the right size and weight, (nothing too heavy or that would have been considered work)-- right there on the ground at the place where they took the man to kill him. . . Now that I think about it, there is that saying, "Many hands make light work" which means if everyone was acting in concert, it really wasn't work on the Sabbath because there were so many stones being flung that nobody really had to throw that hard. . . I am very confused.


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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Something-on-my-Paws View Post
I thought Moses was a Jew.

Of course Moses was a Jew. The Jews were God's chosen people in those days, having not yet had the chance to betray that trust and conspire with the godless Romans to kill Jesus. What is your point?


God judgeth the righteous, And God is angry with the wicked every day- Psalm 7:11
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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 02:52 PM

Whether the Jews killed Jesus or not at that point in time is irrelevant to me, as a Pastafarian. I hate them for other reasons.
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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 03:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Something-on-my-Paws View Post
Whether the Jews killed Jesus or not at that point in time is irrelevant to me, as a Pastafarian. I hate them for other reasons.
Well there are so many reasons to hate them, lol!


Tell us yours.


Hello, my name is Mary. I hope to fellowship with you! That is, unless you don't listen to church authority (Deuteronomy 17:12); are a witch (Exodus 22:17); are a homosexual (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:24-32); or fortuneteller (Leviticus 20:27) or a snotty kid who hits their dad (Exodus 21:15); or curses their parents (Proverbs 20:20; Leviticus 20:9); an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10); a non-Christian (Exodus 22:19; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Deuteronomy 17:2-5;Romans 1:24-32); an atheist (2 Chronicles 15:12-13); or false prophet (Zechariah 13:3); from the town of one who worships another, false god (Deuteronomy 13:13-19); were a non-virgin bride (Deuteronomy 22:20-21); or blasphemer (Leviticus 24:10-16), as God calls for your execution and will no doubt send you to Hell, and I have no interest developing a friendship with the Spiritually Walking Dead.

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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-12-2017, 03:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Something-on-my-Paws View Post
Whether the Jews killed Jesus or not at that point in time is irrelevant to me, as a Pastafarian. I hate them for other reasons.
I thought that Pastafarians were full of love-- not because they are high on the ganga, like the Rastafari, but because they are filled with good, satisfying pasta* and merry-making beer.


It's also worth pointing out that those Jews whom Moses led out of Egypt also enjoyed a good beer. It was a major source of energy and nutrition when they built the pyramids. Seems like you guys would have a lot in common.


* Not as satisfying as the Bread of Life.


John 6:35

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:48

I am that bread of life.



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Default Re: Moses, competent, good and wise leadership! - 04-13-2017, 02:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda View Post
Tell us yours.
As a Thai, I've met many tourists from all around the world. The Jews were the worst.


Plus, with their big noses and curly hair, I get a general vibe of douchebaggery from them.
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