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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 12-17-2008, 08:39 AM

Thanks, but it was unnecessary.

The bible says it, that's more than enough for me.
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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 12-18-2008, 12:25 AM

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The bible says it, that's more than enough for me.
Amen! It's enough for me too, friend.

However, when I'm witnessing to someone who doesn't believe the Bible, it's nice to be able to show that TRUE science always backs up what we True Christians™ have been saying all along.

I have good news. Someone answered my Craig's List ad about donating a spectrometer. I should have it by Christmas Eve. Thank you, Jesus!

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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 12-24-2008, 02:35 PM

Praise the LORD! Our church's new spectrometer arrived yesterday. It's a Beckman Coulter DU 800 UV/Vis model. It came with a computer, a deuterium lamp, a bunch of plastic rectangle plates with all these tiny windows filled with various colors of liquid, several little plastic cylinders and tubes, something that looks kind of like a sewing machine but without the motor, a tall red microscope-looking thing, several electronic boxes and cables that all hook together somehow, and a whole slew of small assorted doo-dads and thing-a-ma-bobs.

A couple of computer wizards from my congregation are at the church right now setting the thing up. Bill is an IT manager, and Gerry is his network administrator or something. They were working furiously when I left them, so I'm sure they'll have it up and running soon.

Pastor Billy-Reuben


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-02-2009, 04:11 AM

Bill and Gerry weren't able to figure out how to set up the spectrometer. The thing makes a heck of a racket and there are all these error codes on the screen, something about "no signal".

I called the company and they are going to send out a technician next week. They are charging us an arm and a leg for it, too. I don't think they have a saved Christian on their staff because they weren't willing to give a House of God a break on the price. I reckon we'll have to take up a special love offering this Sunday to pay for getting the spectrometer working.

Oh well. The Lord doesn't give us anything we can't handle. I'll just leave this in God's capable hands.

Pastor Billy-Reuben


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-02-2009, 06:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben View Post
Bill and Gerry weren't able to figure out how to set up the spectrometer. The thing makes a heck of a racket and there are all these error codes on the screen, something about "no signal".
Brother, I'd take it apart and put it back in the box before the factory tech gets there. Tell them you didn't touch it and maybe they will warranty it. Pray. A lot.


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-05-2009, 06:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben View Post
Bill and Gerry weren't able to figure out how to set up the spectrometer.

I called the company and they are going to send out a technician next week. They are charging us an arm and a leg for it, too.
You know, this sounds like a job for Dr. Ville. I'm sure that someone in his Creation Science lab must know how to set up and use a spectrometer in the service of the Lord. If those heathen technicians can't get it working, I'd give the good Dr. a call.



Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name.... Jeremiah 10:25
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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-06-2009, 04:44 AM

Crikeys I think I've finally found the answer to a good laugh.... just start reading some of the misguided and wrong posts on your forums.

If we were all like you (which thank beezlebub we are not!!!) we'd still be living in a cave and worshipping a whole bunch of hocus pocus tripe.

You baptist f*cks are funny as hell.

Other words that come to mind are:

misguided, dumb, gullible.... I could go on and on but I just cannot be bothered wasting my time.

Do you beleive in a flat earth as well?


:devil :
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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-06-2009, 04:53 AM

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Originally Posted by Robyn Adelaide View Post
Crikeys I think I've finally found the answer to a good laugh.... just start reading some of the misguided and wrong posts on your forums.

If we were all like you (which thank beezlebub we are not!!!) we'd still be living in a cave and worshipping a whole bunch of hocus pocus tripe.

You baptist f*cks are funny as hell.

Other words that come to mind are:

misguided, dumb, gullible.... I could go on and on but I just cannot be bothered wasting my time.

Do you beleive in a flat earth as well?


:devil :
Creakeys yourself, you silly sod. Where do you live...Back O' Bourke? Of course the earth isn't flat....at least not since the flood. The water filled it up like a sponge and now it's an oblate sphere.


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Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth.--Psalms 58:6


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-06-2009, 04:53 AM

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Do you beleive in a flat earth as well?
Do you?


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-06-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn Adelaide View Post
If we were all like you (which thank beezlebub we are not!!!) we'd still be living in a cave and worshipping a whole bunch of hocus pocus tripe.

You baptist f*cks are funny as hell.

Other words that come to mind are:

misguided, dumb, gullible.... I could go on and on but I just cannot be bothered wasting my time.
I think it's telling that I can give facts and hard numbers, and the best you atheist naysayers can do to counter is to call us names. Why doesn't anyone ever try to show that the calculations in the original post are wrong?


Oh, but YOU'RE the ones who are reasonable, intelligent, and rational.

Pastor Billy-Reuben


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-07-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn Adelaide View Post
Crikeys I think I've finally found the answer to a good laugh.... just start reading some of the misguided and wrong posts on your forums.
We'll see how hard you laugh when you're burning for eternity in Hell.

Quote:
If we were all like you (which thank beezlebub we are not!!!) we'd still be living in a cave and worshipping a whole bunch of hocus pocus tripe.
Beezlebub? Isn't that the name of Barack HUSSEIN Obama's father? Anyway, we prefer large estates in gated, Christian-only communities with state of the art fitness facilities. After all, that is the American dream.

Quote:
You baptist f*cks are funny as hell. Other words that come to mind are: misguided, dumb, gullible....
We can't all be well guided, ingenious skeptics like you.

Quote:
I could go on and on but I just cannot be bothered wasting my time.
Excellent, then you won't mind in the slightest that you've been moved to quarantine.

Quote:
Do you beleive in a flat earth as well?
Yes. The Bible says the Earth is flat, and it is.



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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-09-2009, 10:13 PM

We got our spectrometer up and running, and today was a sunny day, so we fired it up! Here is the result:

Name:  spectrometer.jpg
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It turns out that the peak wavelength is 501nm, which means that the sun is actually green rather than yellow! Why does it look yellow to us then? Because air is blue, and when you shine a green light through a blue filter, it looks yellow.

Now I'll revisit all of my old calculations with the new data:
501 = 2897768.5/T
501 * T = 2897768.5
T = 2897768.5/501
T = 5784.0° K (9951.5° F)

So the sun is 5784.0° K rather than 5039.6° K. That's a good bit hotter. Let's see how far away it is now:
d = (5039.6 - 288)/6
d = 916.0 km (569.2 miles)

So the sun is exactly 569.2 miles away, not the 491.1 miles I estimated earlier. My calculation was off because I didn't know that the sun wasn't really yellow.

Let's calculate the diameter again, now that we have accurate numbers.
Remember, with a focal point of 1 meter, the sun appears to have a radius of 1 cm. We can use this information to calculate the angular degrees.

x = 1.000 m
y = 0.010 m
Θ = arctan(0.010/1) = 0.573°

So we calculate the radius again like this:
915.994 km = r * cos(0.573°)
915.994/cos(0.573) = r
r = 916.041

y = 916.041 * sin(0.573)
y = 9.161 km (5.7 mi)

So the diameter is about 11 1/2 miles, not the 10 miles I calculated earlier.

Pastor Billy-Reuben


Upon request I will cite scripture for all these facts in God's Holy Word.

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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-09-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben View Post
We got our spectrometer up and running, and today was a sunny day, so we fired it up! Here is the result:

It turns out that the peak wavelength is 501nm, which means that the sun is actually green rather than yellow! Why does it look yellow to us then? Because air is blue, and when you shine a green light through a blue filter, it looks yellow.

So the diameter is about 11 1/2 miles, not the 10 miles I calculated earlier.

Pastor Billy-Reuben
That is excellent work, Pastor! You can even see the sunspots! This is the proof we have all been waiting for. And that means the moon is probably green as well. Why else would all photoluminescent night lights be green?


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-09-2009, 11:06 PM

I must say that I was intrigued by the deftness of your calculations; I have some difficulty with figures of that magnitude. However, like most of your flock, I too had always assumed that the sun was yellow. But then, Jesus guided my fingers over the Interweb and I came up with this!

Apparently the human eye is most sensitive to yellowish-green light!!!
Quote:
At moderate to bright light levels where the cones functions, the eye is more sensitive to yellowish-green light than other colors because this stimulates the two most common of the three kinds of cones almost equally.
I suspect that God designed the sun and the eye, it was so that, when they were in the Wilderness, the Children of Israel could see an oasis a mile off.




Ec:7:16: Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?

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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-27-2009, 04:56 AM

Your math is correct but improperly applied. Your calculations have several false assumptions built into them.

1) That the troposphere is constant until the sun is reached(there is also the stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, and exosphere). All of the other atmospheric layers have a different gaseous composition along with a reduced amount of water vapor.

2) Your calculations also conclude that the earth gets colder as you travel towards it and that the temperature increases as you climb upward. This is most likely a result of you applying the mean temperature gradient of the troposphere (6K/km) backwards. This is easily verifiable, the tops of the Rocky Mountains are colder than their base. Yes the troposphere's temperature does change at a rate of 6K per kilometer but decreasingly so.

3) A combination of Charle's and Boyle's Laws may be applied to show that as temperature decreases so does pressure. As you climb upwards the air pressure constantly decreases (you can verify this yourself via a barometer and a couple hours worth of hiking) so the temperature must also decrease. This is contrary to your math rationalizing an increasing temperature as you move away from the earth.

I cannot disprove your math, but in order for you to validate it you would have to prove that the troposphere extends for 570+ miles and that pressure and temperature do not decrease as you travel further away from the earth, after all if the sun is hotter than 5784 K how could it possibly get colder as you moved towards it?
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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-27-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrhus View Post
Your math is correct but improperly applied. Your calculations have several false assumptions built into them.

1) That the troposphere is constant until the sun is reached(there is also the stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, and exosphere). All of the other atmospheric layers have a different gaseous composition along with a reduced amount of water vapor.
The earth's atmosphere is a closed system, because we have the firmament overhead (Gen 1:6-8). Boyle's law explains how gas expands to fill whatever container it is in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrhus View Post
2) Your calculations also conclude that the earth gets colder as you travel towards it and that the temperature increases as you climb upward. This is most likely a result of you applying the mean temperature gradient of the troposphere (6K/km) backwards. This is easily verifiable, the tops of the Rocky Mountains are colder than their base.
It's cold on top of mountains because of the shape of the land, causing all of those updrafts. Have you ever been on top of a mountain? Did you notice how windy it is? That's why it's cold up there.

Now, have you ever seen how hot the space shuttle gets when it very high up? That's because it is very close to the sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrhus View Post
3) A combination of Charle's and Boyle's Laws may be applied to show that as temperature decreases so does pressure. As you climb upwards the air pressure constantly decreases (you can verify this yourself via a barometer and a couple hours worth of hiking)
Yeah, but if I just did it once it wouldn't be scientific, because I'm not controlling for changing weather patterns. A weather front could move in during my hike that could more than offset whatever difference there is in pressure between the base and the summit.

To be scientific, I would have to hike up thousands of mountains all over the world at various times of the year. So, I'd spend several years hauling a barometer all over creation. You'd like that, wouldn't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrhus View Post
I cannot disprove your math, but in order for you to validate it you would have to prove that the troposphere extends for 570+ miles and that pressure and temperature do not decrease as you travel further away from the earth
I'll have to see if anyone on Craig's list has a weather balloon they are willing to donate to our church.

In the mean time, we can also use the inverse square law to show the distance to the Sun. I know someone who has a pyranometer I can borrow. It's raining here today, but we should be good to go later this week.

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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-27-2009, 04:31 PM

/quote Pastor Billy-Reuben It's cold on top of mountains because of the shape of the land, causing all of those updrafts. Have you ever been on top of a mountain? Did you notice how windy it is? That's why it's cold up there.

Now, have you ever seen how hot the space shuttle gets when it very high up? That's because it is very close to the sun. /qoute Pastor Billy-Reuben

If you disagree with it being colder on top mountains just take a hot air balloon ride a mile or so up, it will be colder. You can do it in the great plains to avoid any effects of the land. The case may also be made while flying in an airplane, the external temperature is always colder (you stay nice and comfy due to a pressurized cabin).

Space shuttles are only warm on re-entry due to air friction as the atmosphere becomes more dense. The hottest part of the shuttle on re-entry is always the bottom (the part facing the earth)

/quote Pastor Billy-Reuben The earth's atmosphere is a closed system, because we have the firmament overhead (Gen 1:6-8). Boyle's law explains how gas expands to fill whatever container it is in. /quote Pastor Billy-Reuben

The bible also describes the firmament as being a barrier between our Earth and the sun and the moon (Gen 1:14-17) And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth": and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: the stars also. So the sun, moon, and stars are isolated from Earth's closed atmosphere in your justification, rendering your constant gradient of 6 K/km isolated from the sun because of the firmament.

Boyle's Law does describe volume according to pressure of a gas but the atmosphere and pressure does decrease as you climb, if you do manage to get your hands on a weather balloon it will confirm that pressure decreases as you climb.

I apologize for the lackluster quotes, I don't spend much time online.
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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-27-2009, 04:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Pyrrhus View Post
The bible also describes the firmament as being a barrier between our Earth and the sun and the moon (Gen 1:14-17) And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth": and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: the stars also. So the sun, moon, and stars are isolated from Earth's closed atmosphere in your justification, rendering your constant gradient of 6 K/km isolated from the sun because of the firmament.


The passage says that God set them "in the firmament", not above or outside the firmament. How you are getting that the firmament separates the earth from the sun, moon, and stars from that passage?

Pastor Billy-Reuben


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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-27-2009, 05:17 PM

The firmament wouldn't be part of the earth then would? (This is for clarification not a debate on the firmament) As an analogy the Earth to the firmament would be like a marble in a bowl of pudding, where the marble is earth as a closed system including its atmosphere.

Your reference to Genesis 1:6-8 supports a view similar to this doesn't it? (Genesis 1:6-8) God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

"And God called the firmament Heaven", I'm assuming Earth and Heaven are being held separate. Kindly elaborate if I am mistaken. I apologize about ill-clarity of my previous comment, I was focusing too much on the divide.
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Default Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away? - 01-27-2009, 05:49 PM

The Earth is the ground, the firmament is the dome over the top, and the atmosphere is the air in between.

I posted a picture in another thread that might make it clearer for you.

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