[Tertius The Scribe]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

let me clarify, I'm not trying to say that you are absolutely positively wrong in your religious beliefs. I believe that your god and mine are one and the same. I do, however, denouce the idea that christianity has always existed and since the beginning of time (6000 years ago) when there is clear evidence to the contrary. I feel like I'm having an argument about whether or not grass is actually green, when you can clearly see that it is.
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quoting scripture is not evidence. Its just not. its like using a word to define that same word. how does it actually prove anything? and the very fact that youre using a computer proves that you don't entirely believe that science is evil.

How can you even say that with a straight face? For one thing, my God is not some Pagan goddess sissy named Boota. And second, you are just intentionally being a little evilutionist troll that thinks the Holy Trinity is actually Darwin, Mendel, and De Vries. There is absolutely nothing funny about ignoring irrefutable proof that the Earth was created exactly 6013 years ago! Perhaps if you weren't so busy asking Satan to possess your soul with the primitive lie that is evolution, God would treat you to the heavenly splendor of being a devout Christian! But no, you choose to spit at Genesis, blatantly ignoring Job 38: 2-21-

"2-Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? *3-Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. *4-Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. *5-Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? *6-Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; *7-When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? *8-Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? *9-When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, *10-And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, *11-And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? *12-Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; *13-That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? *14-It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. *15-And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. *16-Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? *17-Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? *18-Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. *19-Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, *20-That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof? *21-Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?"

Now do you see? Now do you see that God despises degenerates like you that purport the lie that apes fornicated with Adam and Eve to evolve into man? Now do you see that you will burn in the everlasting flame unless you repent against your sin, heathen? NOW DO YOU SEE?

[Mechanix]

OK. John, You get a High Five!. How do I get a confessed witch status??

[Mechanix]

I'm really just trying to understand what this irrefutable proof is. I'm not here to tear you down. I'm here to stand up for a tradition with a documented history that predates the old testament. From my point of view, scripture is not evidence.

Part of my confusion with the Genisis story is the fact that we are all supposedly decended of 2 people, and then after that, of Noah's family. How does this account for the genetic defects that result from Incest?

I was raised as a Catholic. I never felt the hand of God in that time. Only since my conversion to paganism have I felt truly connected to the earth and the heavens. I have felt spiritually fulfilled. When people tell me that I need to renounce that and accept christianity, it feels to me that I'm being asked to lie to myself every day and pretend that I feel equally fulfilled by accepting a religion that never gave me any satisfaction or made me feel truly blessed. If it truly is God that guides our spiritual path, then I say this is the path that he led me to. The same thing that many of you feel is true about your spirituality, I feel as well about mine.

[Nobar King]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

I'm really just trying to understand what this irrefutable proof is. I'm not here to tear you down. I'm here to stand up for a tradition with a documented history that predates the old testament. From my point of view, scripture is not evidence.

Part of my confusion with the Genisis story is the fact that we are all supposedly decended of 2 people, and then after that, of Noah's family. How does this account for the genetic defects that result from Incest?

I was raised as a Catholic. I never felt the hand of God in that time. Only since my conversion to paganism have I felt truly connected to the earth and the heavens. I have felt spiritually fulfilled. When people tell me that I need to renounce that and accept christianity, it feels to me that I'm being asked to lie to myself every day and pretend that I feel equally fulfilled by accepting a religion that never gave me any satisfaction or made me feel truly blessed. If it truly is God that guides our spiritual path, then I say this is the path that he led me to. The same thing that many of you feel is true about your spirituality, I feel as well about mine.

Maybe you should read this brilliant work Where did the races come from? by Pastor Billy-Reuben. It should clear up some of your confusion.

[Mechanix]

Actually, While I found this interpretation of genesis rather intersesting, It really didn't clear up any confusion (I read it beginning to end) because as I've mentioned before, I don't believe that Scripture can be used to prove that scripture is truth. Not only did it not clear up my questions about incest, but it also didn't answer a single thing about my connection to my own spirituality and why I should live in a manner that I feel would be lying to myself.

[Mechanix]

also, can someone quote me the scripture where God tells you to KILL us?? I'd really like to see that. Preferably from the mouth of Christ. Thanks, Everyone!

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

also, can someone quote me the scripture where God tells you to KILL us?? I'd really like to see that. Preferably from the mouth of Christ. Thanks, Everyone!

Yes I can but I don't support lazy lifestyles - get out there and do some work.

[Add Color]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

I don't normally do this sort of thing, but a friend of mine told me about the pagan bashing going on here and I had to reply. I've never seen this show, nor do I care. What I do care about is people who preach but actually have no idea what they're talking about.

To say that pagans worship satan is completely ridiculous. Most pagan faiths predate Chrisianity by thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of years. Satan is a Christian concept, having nothing to do with paganism.
To say that all pagans are devil worshipers that are going to hell is to say that all people who lived before the rise of christianity went to hell. Christianity didn't become a dominant religion until the 4th Century. (and don't quote the bible at me, telling me that chrisitanity has always existed and people have always worshipped the concept of God since the beginning of time. its a proven fact that the earth and humanity existed before the Bible. The old testament is dated to somewhere between the 2nd and 12th Century BCE)

We pagans believe that all concepts of the devine are one and the same. what you call Yaweh/Jahova/God, We refer to by many names, both masculine and feminine (because the universe is abound with many forces relating to both)

Also, someone mentioned vikings and thier history of pillaging and raping Christians. if we're going to bring ancient history into the mix, lets look at the record of Christianity. First of all, the chruch was responsible for conversion at the point of a sword for a millenium. pagan cultures from the Celts back in the beginning of the common era, all the way to the Native Americans in the American colonial times have had Christianity forced on them. to make conversion "easier" most Christian holidays are based on pagan beliefs and placed around the same time of year. (example: Christmas is practiced to be the birthdate of Christ. on December 25th. The pagan Sabbat of Yule falls on the Winter Solstice and is a Celtic celebration of the birth of the god of the harvest)

I'm not calling modern Chrisitans to account for these actions, I'm just pointing out facts. I feel that Jesus Christ was a great teacher with a strong point about loving your fellow man. I just wish more christians would follow his example. Hate mongering is not at all what Jesus had in mind (forgiveness of a prisoner, remember that one??)

I'll just leave you all with this. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

You're going to hell. Shall you come out of the closet also?

[Mechanix]

You honestly believe that people who don't believe as you do are gay??? I'm actually a man that is happily married to a woman, just to let you know. Maybe I need to shorten my posts, because I haven't tried to slam your beliefs, merely understand them while telling you my own. I still haven't seen any thing on how y'all account for the genetic defects that result from incest. and as far as killing 'witches', Exodus 22:18 states, when accurately translated from the original hebrew, Thou shalt not permit an enchanter to live, as at the time, there was no word for witch.

The term "witch" was created by the Catholic church. So how does this become interpreted to mean that pagans and enchanters, sorcerers, witches, etc. are one and the same? Yes, we have accepted the term "witch" and turned it into our own, much as other groups have taken racial slurs and made them their own, but that does not make us evil sorcerers and enchanters.

also, a little way back, in Exodus 20:13 it states "Thou Shalt not Kill". that's it, no sub-text, no exceptions, just that. How can it be both ways???

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

You honestly believe that people who don't believe as you do are gay??? I'm actually a man that is happily married to a woman, just to let you know. Maybe I need to shorten my posts, because I haven't tried to slam your beliefs, merely understand them while telling you my own. I still haven't seen any thing on how y'all account for the genetic defects that result from incest. and as far as killing 'witches', Exodus 22:18 states, when accurately translated from the original hebrew, Thou shalt not permit an enchanter to live, as at the time, there was no word for witch.

Since you have exactly zero background in True Christian™ Theology, it is understandable how you can be so incredibly wrong. Suffice to say that Biblically speaking, there is no difference between a sodomite and a supporter of sodomites, nor is there any difference between a witch and an enchanter.

So-called "genetic defects" are a figment of secular scientists. It' just a fancy word for cripple, and God decides which parents get punished by having a gimp for a baby. Needless to say, there has never been a single case of a True Christian™ having a retard baby. God loves and protects us.

Do you read ancient Hebrew? I'm going to guess you don't. Take a look at my education before you start tossing out these lies.

BTW: Hebrew wasn't even a language back in those days.

Originally Posted by Mechanix

The term "witch" was created by the Catholic church. So how does this become interpreted to mean that pagans and enchanters, sorcerers, witches, etc. are one and the same? Yes, we have accepted the term "witch" and turned it into our own, much as other groups have taken racial slurs and made them their own, but that does not make us evil sorcerers and enchanters.

Can you prove that the papists invented the word "witch?" I'll bet you can't. I'll bet you just pulled that out of your ass, like all the other "facts" you pagans bandy about.

The fact is, if you chose to ignore God's Holy Word and practice witchcraft (or whatever wordplay you want to spin it with), then you have thrown your lot in with satan. You have no one but yourself to blame when you find yourself being anally raped by every demon in hell for all eternity.

Originally Posted by Mechanix

also, a little way back, in Exodus 20:13 it states "Thou Shalt not Kill". that's it, no sub-text, no exceptions, just that. How can it be both ways???

Since you are a God-mocking pagan witch, I'm not sure why you even care what the Holy Bible says or doesn't say.

To help you along the path toward Salvation©, I'll give you this much; The Ten Commandments were given to God's chosen people, and they applied only to them. It's just like "love your neighbor," God doesn't mean we should love a queer or some witch scum. He means each other, as in His chosen.

God commands us to kill unsaved scum like you at several points in th Holy Bible. He isn't contradicting Himself, He's giving orders. And once we are successful at getting the U.S. Constitution scrapped and the KJV Bible put in it's place as the law of the land, one of the first things we'll do is round up every witch and kill them dead, to please Jesus.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

also, a little way back, in Exodus 20:13 it states "Thou Shalt not Kill". that's it, no sub-text, no exceptions, just that. How can it be both ways???

*sigh*
How many times is this same tired old argument going to be pulled out? If you bother to use the search feature, you'll see it's been refuted over and over again.
If "Thou shalt not kill" meant anything other than "Don't commit murder", the Bible wouldn't then be filled with God telling us who and when to kill through legal capital punishment and righteous warfare.

[Mechanix]

Wow. first of all, I can read Hebrew, ancient and modern (true that it wasn't called Hebrew then, but it was a language.) I can also read and speak Italian, Latin & Irish Gaelic. How righteous of you to call into question my education while actually knowing nothing at all about me aside from the fact that I am pagan. Can you read Hebrew? I’m not assuming you can or can’t I’m simply asking a question.


I am not a “God Mocking Pagan.” I’ve done nothing to insult any of you. All I have done is ask for a solid reason for the hatred you feel towards me. What would you have me do? Get on a plane and come down to you and just have you kill me because YOUR book says its what I’m supposed to do??

I believe you also asked me to show some kind of evidence to the usage of the term "witch". Not sure what you would like to see, but this is the dictionary definition

Witch (noun.) a person who practices the black arts and possesses supernatural powers due to a pact with the devil -also known as Satan. The origins of this definition came from the medieval period circa 1500 when it also included eccentrics, lepers, Jews and anyone else who didn't conform to the Christian Church. During this time 'witch' almost always referred to women and is evident with words like hag and crone. The reasoning behind this was that women were considered the weaker sex and thus were easily tempted by the devil. Even today, when we think of a witch we think in terms of female, although they can be male as well. Other monotheistic religions like Judaism and Islam also had similar viewpoints (Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Volume III)

Or is the dictionary an evil work of Satan too?

I have never made any pact with the devil. I have never possessed any supernatural powers, I have never practiced black magic, I’m not a leper, I’m not eccentric, I’m not a Jew, so what is it that actually makes me a “witch”?.


I also want to thank you for pointing out what it is that you believe accounts for birth defects. I really had no idea how it is that you account for that. Now I do. That’s all I ask is that you have some sort of reasoning. Not that I agree with you, but I respect your belief. (aside from the whole murdering me thing)

Blessed Be

[Mechanix]

Mary, if you're going to accuse me of something, do it openly where I can respond.

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

Wow. first of all, I can read Hebrew, ancient and modern (true that it wasn't called Hebrew then, but it was a language.) I can also read and speak Italian, Latin & Irish Gaelic. How righteous of you to call into question my education while actually knowing nothing at all about me aside from the fact that I am pagan. Can you read Hebrew? I’m not assuming you can or can’t I’m simply asking a question.

Why would we need to understand Hebrew to understand the Bible? The King James 1611 isn't written in Hebrew friend. Let's try to be logical here. Frankly you are coming across as more than a little elitist.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

Mary, if you're going to accuse me of something, do it openly where I can respond.

Okay. I'm accusing you of being too lazy to search the forum to see if "Thou shalt not kill" has been addressed before.

[Mechanix]

I was referring to your private message to me. It's one thing to disagree and even hate my beliefs, It is entirely another to start calling people gay for no reason. and furthermore, to actually say that I am lying about my sexuality, when you don't actually know anything about me. If I say that I'm married to a woman, what leads you to believe that I'm not and to act as if you KNOW that I am a homosexual. you don't even know my name.

and you are correct, I never looked through the entire forum. I apoligize for bringing up an old topic.


To Bobby-Joe. Pastor Ezekial asked me a direct question. "Do you read ancient Hebrew? I'm going to guess you don't". I answered a direct question. My education was also called into question. I therefore replied with other languages that I read and understand. How is it elitist to answer a direct question?

Also, even if the King James 1611 Bible was originally published in English, It comes from a source written in the language of the Hebrew people of old. Therefore, the translation of Biblical passages into English would have changes due to the nature of language itself. Every language has words that cannot be translated directly into another language, and therefore must be extrapolated and interpreted by the person doing the translation.

I think we can all probably agree as well that Jesus did not speak English? therefore his words would have to have been translated from the original Aramaic into English?

Again, I mean no disrespect in the least. I'm simply responding to all of you.

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

I think we can all probably agree as well that Jesus did not speak English? therefore his words would have to have been translated from the original Aramaic into English?

What we probably don't agree upon and what as a Christian I firmly believe Jesus is God. God's will can not be thwarted by man.

So what does the original langauge have to do with anything Goat Worshiper?

[Mechanix]

Goat worshiper?? I'm not even sure I understand what that means. My point, friend, is that the Bible has been transcribed by mortal men. Sure, I'll accept that you believe that it was originally penned by God himself. But surely you don't think that God transcribed it into English, do you?

Being Transcribed by mortal men (not interpreted or written, just translated word for word), There is room for changes to have taken place. There are many words and phrases in the Hebrew Language that simply do not translate into English. There are words in most languages that do not translate into English because of the grammatical structure of our language. We do not refer to things in the masculine or feminine form, for starters. Similarly, there are words and phrases in English that do not translate directly into other languages (most of them being improper, and I will not use them here). I would site examples of hebrew that do not translate, but it doesn't even look like English, and therefore I cannot type it here.

Why, Bobby-Joe, do you insist on hating me so much? I'm merely trying to understand you and where the hatred of my people came from. Nobody's pointed out how I fit into the provided definition of a "witch" yet....

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

I was referring to your private message to me. It's one thing to disagree and even hate my beliefs, It is entirely another to start calling people gay for no reason. and furthermore, to actually say that I am lying about my sexuality, when you don't actually know anything about me. If I say that I'm married to a woman, what leads you to believe that I'm not and to act as if you KNOW that I am a homosexual. you don't even know my name.

By "private message" you mean the infraction you received. You can't expect me to know that's what you're referring to if you don't say it!
As for the rest of your post, you sure do deny quite vigorously, almost absurdly so...

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Mechanix

I think we can all probably agree as well that Jesus did not speak English?

I don't think that you'll find a single True Christian™ who believes that. Jesus is God, pal. He can do anything He likes, and that includes speaking English. Why are you elitist witch scum always trying to put limits on God's majestic powers?

Originally Posted by Mechanix

therefore his words would have to have been translated from the original Aramaic into English?

Oh! Now it's Aramaic instead of Hebrew, huh? You phony intellectual heathens sure like to change your story. I suppose you speak Aramaic too?

Whatever languages have been used in telling the Good News about Christ's temporary death for my Salvation, GOD ALMIGHTY is the one in charge. Do you really imagine that God, creator of the universe, would sit back and allow even the slightest imperfection in His Word? What kind of crazy world do your witches live in?

Originally Posted by Mechanix

Again, I mean no disrespect in the least. I'm simply responding to all of you.

Your very presence on this Christian forum is repulsive to Jesus. And don't think we haven't noticed your sleazy attempts at putting a hex on us with your "blessed be" curse. We know all about you vermin. Don't come in here sniveling about not being given the red carpet treatment when you pull stunts like that.

Lucky for us our forum is protected by the JesOS Operating System. Glory!!