[Wrong Again Floyd]

Here's a question that'll get you thinking.

It is written in the Bible that acts, good or bad will not get you into heaven. It doesn't matter if you're the best person in the world or the worst person in the world: If you have not accepted Jesus as your saviour: You have no entry into heaven.

Taking that into account:

Why are there so many denominations with different methods of worship? There's Catholics, Bretheren, Baptist, Anglican, Protestant, Morman, J-Witnesses, Seven Day Adventists and hundreds of other Denominations. Each of them have their own method of worship and most of them preach that if you do not follow their method of worship: You will not be accepted into heaven.

Worshipping itself is an act. God says to worship him and I understand that perfectly: However why do churches preach that if you do not worship the way which they dictate: You will not get into heaven?

For example: Seven Day Adventists believe that you should not do any work on Friday after Sundown until Sunday Morning (And I dont think you're supposed to do much work on Sunday either). Bretheren believe that no woman should talk in church. Catholics have robes.

Participating in any of this is an act. Once again: Acts do not get you into heaven yet these churches will say that if you do not act the way they want: you will not get into heaven.

All you need to get into heaven in John 3:16. Why then are there so many denominations demanding so many acts to get into heaven when (for the 30th time in this post ) as the Bible says: No acts will get you into heaven.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Here's a question that'll get you thinking.

It is written in the Bible that acts, good or bad will not get you into heaven. It doesn't matter if you're the best person in the world or the worst person in the world: If you have not accepted Jesus as your saviour: You have no entry into heaven.

Taking that into account:

Why are there so many denominations with different methods of worship? There's Catholics, Bretheren, Baptist, Anglican, Protestant, Morman, J-Witnesses, Seven Day Adventists and hundreds of other Denominations. Each of them have their own method of worship and most of them preach that if you do not follow their method of worship: You will not be accepted into heaven.

Worshipping itself is an act. God says to worship him and I understand that perfectly: However why do churches preach that if you do not worship the way which they dictate: You will not get into heaven?

For example: Seven Day Adventists believe that you should not do any work on Friday after Sundown until Sunday Morning (And I dont think you're supposed to do much work on Sunday either). Bretheren believe that no woman should talk in church. Catholics have robes.

Participating in any of this is an act. Once again: Acts do not get you into heaven yet these churches will say that if you do not act the way they want: you will not get into heaven.

All you need to get into heaven in John 3:16. Why then are there so many denominations demanding so many acts to get into heaven when (for the 30th time in this post ) as the Bible says: No acts will get you into heaven.

Maybe you should go and actually read the bible before you start telling us what is says. Isn't that a good idea? Sure it is.

Psalm 62:12 For you render to each one according to his works.

Proverbs 10:16 The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin. Jeremiah

17:10 I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Ezekiel 18:27 When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul.

Matthew 5:20 Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Matthew 19:17 If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 10:26-28 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Romans 2:6, 13 Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Philippians 2:12 "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:21-25 Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1 Peter 1:17 The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work.

Revelation 2:23 I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 20:12-13 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life.

[Wrong Again Floyd]

You mis-interpret what I said. I dont mean it's okay to sin because it's not. I mean there's no reason for churches to tell you how to worship and that theirs is the only way to worship.

[SalvationSeeker]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Here's a question that'll get you thinking.

It is written in the Bible that acts, good or bad will not get you into heaven. It doesn't matter if you're the best person in the world or the worst person in the world: If you have not accepted Jesus as your saviour: You have no entry into heaven.

You're PARTLY correct, but as said, only partly.
Jesus says that without Him one is lost, YES!
BUT true belief in Jesus (ANY true belief actually) carry works.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:20

All you need to get into heaven in John 3:16. Why then are there so many denominations demanding so many acts to get into heaven when (for the 30th time in this post ) as the Bible says: No acts will get you into heaven.

Where does it say that?
IT DOESN'T!

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:
And they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:13

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;
And then He shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:27

To get saved, one needs the ENTIRE Bible, not just John 3:16!!!

And Jesus answered him, saying,
It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 4:4

[Wrong Again Floyd]

I was taught that you will be held accountable to your works\acts if you did not accept Jesus as your saviour. Simply what my church says.

However: This indirectly proves my point. Jesus is my saviour: I'm going to heaven. Jesus is your saviour: You're going to heaven. My church worships differently\has a slightly different perspective on things: Yet both all the saved members of our churches will be in heaven.

If we're all going to heaven because we're saved: Does it matter if your interpretation is correct or if mine is?

[SalvationSeeker]

Originally Posted by Floyd

I was taught that you will be held accountable to your works\acts if you did not accept Jesus as your saviour. Simply what my church says.

However: This indirectly proves my point. Jesus is my saviour: I'm going to heaven. Jesus is your saviour: You're going to heaven. My church worships differently\has a slightly different perspective on things: Yet both all the saved members of our churches will be in heaven.

If we're all going to heaven because we're saved: Does it matter if your interpretation is correct or if mine is?

Interpretations are an abmomination!! We simply follow what the KJV1611 says, PERIOD!

And your so-called "saved" church members may not go to heaven at all..
If they break any commandment at all, then they are not saved! (1 John 2:3-4)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
But he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

Tell me then:
Do you allow women to preach / teach scripture?
Do you allow bastards into the congregation?
What is your attitude towards homersexuals?

[Wrong Again Floyd]

Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker

Interpretations are an abmomination!! We simply follow what the KJV1611 says, PERIOD!

And your so-called "saved" church members may not go to heaven at all..
If they break any commandment at all, then they are not saved! (1 John 2:3-4)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
But he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

Tell me then:
Do you allow women to preach / teach scripture?
Do you allow bastards into the congregation?
What is your attitude towards homersexuals?

Hate to tell you. You're kinda condradicting yourself.

John 3:16. "For God so love the world that he gave his only son so that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE"

That is the Gospel summarised. If you believe in Jesus Christ: Then you are accepted into heaven.

I'm not saying that you can perform Lip-Service to get into heaven and if you genuinely believe in Jesus then you will prevent yourself from sinning regardless.

Jesus died on the cross for everybodies sins. That way we have a way into heaven. To quote the Bible again: Jesus said (Paraphrased because I cant remember\find the exact quote but the point remains): There's no way into heaven except through Jesus Christ. Not by acts, not by lip-service, not by anything else.

Are you going to say that Jesus was not telling us the truth? That he was lying? Or that he was wrong? What makes you think that you know how to get into heaven better than Jesus?

In regards to your question about if I have broken a commandment: Last I checked; I'm human. So naturally: I've lied, downloaded music for free of the internet (theft), hated somebody (murder) etc. etc. (I was 17 at one point so there was a fair bit of lusting\adultery then too ). Are you going to claim that you're as good as Jesus and therefore have never broken one of the 10 commandments and thus you're going into heaven?

Before I answer your remaining 3 questions: I'd like to understand the relevance of them.

[SalvationSeeker]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Hate to tell you. You're kinda condradicting yourself.

John 3:16. "For God so love the world that he gave his only son so that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE"

Are you slow?
True faith carry works, that's how you will know your faith is true.
There is nothing contradictionary in that.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:3-4

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:13

Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

That is the Gospel summarised. If you believe in Jesus Christ: Then you are accepted into heaven.

Then even demons would go to heaven!
This is an utterly blasphemous message you're spreading, and a false gospel!

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:
The devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:19-20

I'm not saying that you can perform Lip-Service to get into heaven and if you genuinely believe in Jesus then you will prevent yourself from sinning regardless.

Exactly.
If you genuinly believe in Jesus, you will not sin.
You've just contradicted yourself, saying you can enter heaven as a sinner, but no Christian can sin!

Jesus died on the cross for everybodies sins. That way we have a way into heaven. To quote the Bible again: Jesus said (Paraphrased because I cant remember\find the exact quote but the point remains): There's no way into heaven except through Jesus Christ. Not by acts, not by lip-service, not by anything else.

Jesus says there is no point in worshipping Him if you refuse to do what He says, that is, following the commandments:

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:46

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
But he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:21-23

Are you going to say that Jesus was not telling us the truth? That he was lying? Or that he was wrong? What makes you think that you know how to get into heaven better than Jesus?

That's what's you're saying!
I'm the one quoting the Holy Bible here, not you.

In regards to your question about if I have broken a commandment: Last I checked; I'm human. So naturally: I've lied, downloaded music for free of the internet (theft), hated somebody (murder) etc. etc. (I was 17 at one point so there was a fair bit of lusting\adultery then too ). Are you going to claim that you're as good as Jesus and therefore have never broken one of the 10 commandments and thus you're going into heaven?

I've broken commandments before I was saved, not after.
Because that's not possible. (1 John 2:3-4)

Before I answer your remaining 3 questions: I'd like to understand the relevance of them.

Your answers will let me know if you actually care what God says, or if you teach the doctrines of men instead of God's will.

[Wrong Again Floyd]

Wow. Such contradictions.

Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker

Are you slow?
True faith carry works, that's how you will know your faith is true.
There is nothing contradictionary in that.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:3-4

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:13

Hence I said this:

if you genuinely believe in Jesus then you will prevent yourself from sinning regardless.

Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

The Bible also says Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged. Who are you to say who is\is not righteous?

Then even demons would go to heaven!
This is an utterly blasphemous message you're spreading, and a false gospel!

Then you misunderstand it. When you believe in Jesus, it means you accept the fact that he died on the cross for your sins and that without believing in him, having faith, worshipping etc that only then can you get into heaven. Every man is born with sin and it is impossible for a man to not sin.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:
The devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:19-20

Yeah: But the difference is that Demons follow Satan and not Jesus.

Exactly.
If you genuinly believe in Jesus, you will not sin.
You've just contradicted yourself, saying you can enter heaven as a sinner, but no Christian can sin!

Incorrect. Christians CAN still sin, in fact: They do almost daily. The difference is that Jesus died on the cross for their sins thus they are washed away and become as pure as snow.

No, there isn't.
Jesus says there is no point in worshipping Him if you refuse to do what He says, that is, following the commandments:
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:46

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
But he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:21-23

That's what Lip-Service is. He says do not give lip-service. As I said earlier: As a Christian: It's natural to prevent yourself from sinning.

That's what's you're saying!
I'm the one quoting the Holy Bible here, not you.

Congratulations. You have direct quotes. Jesus still said that there's no way to get to the father except through him thus the point remains. I would've thought that with your Bible-Quoting ability you'd know what I was talking about.

I've broken commandments before I was saved, not after.
Because that's not possible. (1 John 2:3-4)

Rightio: So since you've been saved you have never:
1) Not Put God first?
2) Worshipped money\music\celeberities\yourself before God?
3) Apologies, but my mind has blanked on what the 3rd commandment is. Kindly remind me.
4) Not remembered the Sabbath and kept it holy?
5) Disobeyed\Argued with your parents?
6) Murdered\Hated? Hate to tell ya: But by being rascist towards negroes\homosexuals you're hating them and thus committing the sin of murder.
7) Adultered? Cheated? Lusted after somebody else?
8) Stole anything? Downloaded a video\song of copywritten content?
9) Lied? Well we know you already have because you claim to be sin-less when you hate.
10) Coveted something? Wanted anything?

Sorry mate. Everybody sins which is why Jesus died on the cross so that we can be without sin.

Your answers will let me know if you actually care what God says, or if you teach the doctrines of men instead of God's will.

Rightio: The church I belonged to did not let women preach, effectively excommunicated a possible-homosexual, but I do not know if there are any bastards.

Quick question though: Why is it the bastard's fault he was born out of wedlock? It's not like he had a choice in the matter. Should you not exclude the parents rather than the unfortunate child?

[SalvationSeeker]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Wow. Such contradictions.

You must be talking about your arguments?
Yes, I agree with you.

if you genuinely believe in Jesus then you will prevent yourself from sinning regardless.

Yes, so if you sin after CLAIMING to have accepted Jesus, then that would make you what, hmmm?
Let me answer that one: IT WOULD MAKE YOU UNSAVED!

The Bible also says Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged. Who are you to say who is\is not righteous?

Really? Have you ever bothered with the context?
Obviously not..

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
And with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Matthew 7:1-2

As you can see, we may judge.
As long as we are prepared to be judged with the same measurements...
And we are!

Since we only judge according to righteousness, as we are commanded to do! So here's another command you don't follow.

Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment:
Thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty:
But in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Leviticus 19:15

Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart:
Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Leviticus 19:17

Are you saying God contradicts Himself?
No, it is you who contradict God.

Then you misunderstand it. When you believe in Jesus, it means you accept the fact that he died on the cross for your sins and that without believing in him, having faith, worshipping etc that only then can you get into heaven. Every man is born with sin and it is impossible for a man to not sin.

Sigh..
No, it is not impossible, through Jesus a man is purified, and cannot sin anymore.
It's right there in the Word of God.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:3-6

OPEN YOUR EYES AND READ!
Your false teachers has blinded you to the truth.

Yeah: But the difference is that Demons follow Satan and not Jesus.

But you said that all you needed was belief.
Logic isn't your strong side, is it boy?

Incorrect. Christians CAN still sin, in fact: They do almost daily. The difference is that Jesus died on the cross for their sins thus they are washed away and become as pure as snow.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:6

Was that big enough for you?

That's what Lip-Service is. He says do not give lip-service. As I said earlier: As a Christian: It's natural to prevent yourself from sinning.

But you just said that Christians sin daily, and now you say that they prevent themselfs from doing so.
Make up your mind, you can't have both!

Congratulations. You have direct quotes. Jesus still said that there's no way to get to the father except through him thus the point remains. I would've thought that with your Bible-Quoting ability you'd know what I was talking about.

I would have thought that with my bible quoting you'd see that you have no idea what you're talking about.

You call Jesus "Lord" but you do not do the will of the father, thus you're not going to Heaven.
Is this so hard to understand, or maybe I should ask:
Is this too hard to accept for you?

Rightio: So since you've been saved you have never:
1) Not Put God first?
2) Worshipped money\music\celeberities\yourself before God?
3) Apologies, but my mind has blanked on what the 3rd commandment is. Kindly remind me.
4) Not remembered the Sabbath and kept it holy?
5) Disobeyed\Argued with your parents?
6) Murdered\Hated? Hate to tell ya: But by being rascist towards negroes\homosexuals you're hating them and thus committing the sin of murder.
7) Adultered? Cheated? Lusted after somebody else?
8) Stole anything? Downloaded a video\song of copywritten content?
9) Lied? Well we know you already have because you claim to be sin-less when you hate.
10) Coveted something? Wanted anything?

Yes, I havent.
Hate isn't murder btw, where did you get that silly idea?
Murder is murder, hate is hate.

You just want to call yourself a murderer don't you?
Son, there's nothing cool about being a murderer.

Sorry mate. Everybody sins which is why Jesus died on the cross so that we can be without sin.

Yes, Jesus died to take away sins PAST.
Once you are Saved, Jesus abides in you, and you in Him, and thus you cannot sin anymore.
Simple.

Quick question though: Why is it the bastard's fault he was born out of wedlock? It's not like he had a choice in the matter. Should you not exclude the parents rather than the unfortunate child?

A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD;
Even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 23:2

[Wrong Again Floyd]

Can I ask where you got your translation of the Bible? A lot of that sounds skewed.

Yes, so if you sin after CLAIMING to have accepted Jesus, then that would make you what, hmmm?
Let me answer that one: IT WOULD MAKE YOU UNSAVED!

Sorry: It makes you human. Last I checked we were all human.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
And with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Matthew 7:1-2

As you can see, we may judge.
As long as we are prepared to be judged with the same measurements...
And we are!

By that logic: If I dont judge anybody by any standard or measure: I will not be judged. That verse was effectively saying treat others as you expect to be treated yourself.

Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment:
Thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty:
But in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Leviticus 19:15

That was basically saying dont judge somebody by their reputation until you know them personally. In other words: Dont judge them until you know them like you would a neighbour.

Also: In this context, I believe the word "Judge" is used not in terms of righteousness\wickedness, rather in terms of the nature of their person. In other words if they're a good person, sarcastic, funny, intelligent, cynical, quiet etc. In other words: Evaluate the persons personality. Not everything is black and white.

Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart:
Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Leviticus 19:17

Yeah: That's basically saying Dont Judge Lest Ye Be Judged. "and not suffer sin upon him." basically means to not wish sin on a person. Therefore: Dont judge somebody and wish harm on them because it is not your place to say that he is deserving of God's wrath.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Translation: Every man who has hope (Belief, faith, trust) in him (Jesus Christ) purifies himself regardless of his acts. Whoever sins breaks the law because sin is the act of breaking a commandment.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Translation: Whoever knows (believes\trusts) that he (Jesus) was manifested (created) to take away our sins has no sin. Whoever abideth* has no sin. Whoever has sinned does not know Christ.

*Abideth means reside. Churches are known as the house of God thus is you worship Jesus in a church: You abideth in him.

In other words; If you believe and worship Christ: He will take your sin and purify you.

But you said that all you needed was belief.
Logic isn't your strong side, is it boy?

I assumed being able to quote the bible meant you would understand what it said instead of what somebody has told you.

But you just said that Christians sin daily, and now you say that they prevent themselfs from doing so.
Make up your mind, you can't have both!

Yeah. You can. Humans are not Jesus no matter how hard they try. People make mistakes dont they? Hence we are people. They wont sin as much because they prevent themselves from sinning (EG: They wont take the opportunity to steal something), but that doesn't derive from the fact that they sin.

You call Jesus "Lord" but you do not do the will of the father, thus you're not going to Heaven.
Is this so hard to understand, or maybe I should ask:
Is this too hard to accept for you?

On the Contrary. I do as he asks. He says believe in Jesus Christ and you'll get into heaven. I believe, thus I am getting into Heaven. Say hello to logic.

Hate isn't murder btw, where did you get that silly idea?
Murder is murder, hate is hate.

Murder stems from Hatred. It is hatred which inspires one to trangress against another. If you hate a black man: You will want to do things to hurt him. Besides: Doesn't Jesus say that the 11th commandment is "Love the Lord Your God with all your heart and all your soul and mind and love all of mankind as you would love yourself"?

Yes, Jesus died to take away sins PAST.
Once you are Saved, Jesus abides in you, and you in Him, and thus you cannot sin anymore

It doesn't say that you cannot sin any more. It says your sins will be washed away: As in they still might be there: They're just taken away at the appropriate time. For example: When you die.

A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD;
Even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 23:2

Reminder of Jesus' 11th commandment. If you love all of mankind as you love yourself: You wouldn't give a damn that he's a bastard. Also: If memory serves me correctly, Deuteronomy is in the Old Testament. Jesus basically rendered that obselete when he died on the Cross for your sins.

[SalvationSeeker]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Can I ask where you got your translation of the Bible? A lot of that sounds skewed.

I use the King James Version from 1611, the infallible Word of God, and one of the most respected Bibles in existance.
Not to mention it is the ONLY true Bible existing.

So this only goes to show your lack of Biblical knowledge...

Sorry: It makes you human. Last I checked we were all human.

Now you're using your own opinon as an argument, I care not for it.
It makes you unsaved, that's what God says, and that's how it is.
PERIOD.

By that logic: If I dont judge anybody by any standard or measure: I will not be judged. That verse was effectively saying treat others as you expect to be treated yourself.

You cannot get through life without judging! It's not possible.
Especially not if you're truly spiritual:

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1 Corinthians 2:15

And if you will not even warn the wicked for their sins..
(Thus you must JUDGE who'se wicked and not) Then you're going to hell!

When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die;
And thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life;
The same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity;
But thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ezekiel 3:18-19

That was basically saying dont judge somebody by their reputation until you know them personally. In other words: Dont judge them until you know them like you would a neighbour.

Also: In this context, I believe the word "Judge" is used not in terms of righteousness\wickedness, rather in terms of the nature of their person. In other words if they're a good person, sarcastic, funny, intelligent, cynical, quiet etc. In other words: Evaluate the persons personality. Not everything is black and white.

Once again:
This is an opinon with no base in the Bible, leave it out of this.

Opinons doesn't matter unless they are God's opinons, and yours aren't.

Yeah: That's basically saying Dont Judge Lest Ye Be Judged. "

and not suffer sin upon him." basically means to not wish sin on a person. Therefore: Dont judge somebody and wish harm on them because it is not your place to say that he is deserving of God's wrath.

You're right; IT'S GOD PLACE.

And He tells us whom are deserving of His wrath in the Holy Bible!

We're only passing on the message, just like Samuel!
Oh wait, you probably don't even know who he was..

Translation: Every man who has hope (Belief, faith, trust) in him (Jesus Christ) purifies himself regardless of his acts. Whoever sins breaks the law because sin is the act of breaking a commandment.

Yes, everyone who has faith in him purifies himself of PAST acts, and cannot commit any future sin.
BUT as previously stated, faith without works is dead:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness:
And he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:20-24

As you can see, if you truly believe, you will do what God commands you.
If you truly love God, you will obey His commandments.

Stop prancing around in circles:
Everyone can SAY that they have faith, BUT unless they follow Jesus, they are liars! (1 John 2:3-4)

If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15
^ That should pretty much settle it.

*Abideth means reside. Churches are known as the house of God thus is you worship Jesus in a church: You abideth in him.

Total nonsense!

You may call Jesus "Lord, Lord" all you wish in a church or outside a church but that alone won't save you!

Or are you saying that there are no false churches?
This is truly laughable.

I assumed being able to quote the bible meant you would understand what it said instead of what somebody has told you.

I was never taught the Bible by anyone except the Holy Spirit!
I've learned it myself, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, so that baseless assumption won't get you anywhere.
Not to mention, I obviously know it alot better than you.

Though seeing as I study it every day, that's not very surprising.

You doesn't seem to read it much.

On the Contrary. I do as he asks. He says believe in Jesus Christ and you'll get into heaven. I believe, thus I am getting into Heaven. Say hello to logic.

No, you don't believe, if you did you wouldn't question God.
You are one of those who call Jesus "Lord" but have no works, you're no better than the demons mentioned in James 2:19..

Murder stems from Hatred. It is hatred which inspires one to trangress against another. If you hate a black man: You will want to do things to hurt him. Besides: Doesn't Jesus say that the 11th commandment is "Love the Lord Your God with all your heart and all your soul and mind and love all of mankind as you would love yourself"?

First off, God hates people.
Let's clear that up right now.

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:
Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalm 5:5

Second, all of mankind? What kind of Bible are you reading????
Jesus says "YOUR NEIGHBOUR!"..
And who is our neighbour?

Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
Luke 10:36-37

Third, you don't kill anyone by hating them, that's an utterly retarded idea.

If memory serves me correctly, Deuteronomy is in the Old Testament. Jesus basically rendered that obselete when he died on the Cross for your sins.

Oh, did He now?
I must have missed Armageddon then!

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:17-18

Here is where heaven and earth passes away:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:1

As you probably know, this hasn't happened yet.
It takes place after the world is destroyed, after Armageddon!

[OnYourKnees]

You initially asked about different denominations, and how each denomination says different things, and that to get into Heaven, they want you do to different things, and that YOUR Pastor Feelgood tells you that they're ALL right, as long as they say they love Jesus.

Here's a Bible lesson from our learned Pastor, Brother Temperance. I believe it should answer your initial query quite nicely:

Friends, it is very common to hear hippy-dippy false Christians claim that all prayer is equally good to God, or that it doesn't matter how we live as long as we live morally, or some such similar nonsense. This is a very dangerous myth. The Lord is very particular about how He wants to be worshipped.

Leviticus 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

The sons of Aaron offered incense to the Lord when He hadn't asked them to, so He burns them to death. Got that? You praise the Lord when He tells you to, how He tells you to, and if you get it wrong, He'll kill you. Leviticus 10 also carries another good moral message for us:

Leviticus 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled.

Here, Moses (God's chosen emissary) tells Aaron not to mourn the death of his sons. If God kills your child for worshipping Him the wrong way, it is not your place to mourn God's decision, in case God gets offended and decides to kill you too. Praise!

The Lord is very strict about how He wants to be worshipped. Look at what happened to Korah:

Numbers 16:1 Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:
2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

So, Korah and his associates asked why, if all men are created equal, and God loves all His servants, why should some of them lift themselves up so much higher than the rest?

4 And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:
5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
6 This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company;
7 And put fire therein, and put incense in them before the LORD to morrow: and it shall be that the man whom the LORD doth choose, he shall be holy: ye take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi.

So, Moses challenges him to a kind of "holiness duel". Essentially, he just tells him to worship God, and see what happens.

31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
35 And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.

So God opens up the earth, and it swallowed up Korah, and all the men that appertained unto him, and everything they owned, including their houses. Then he burns 250 of Korah's friends who'd offered Him incense. It's important to bear in mind here that these folks weren't being killed for worshipping false gods; they were worshipping God, just not in the right way.

Originally Posted by Floyd

I was taught that you will be held accountable to your works\acts if you did not accept Jesus as your saviour. Simply what my church says.

The Bible says otherwise, as Pastor Al has already demonstrated. Jesus came to enforce the Law:

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Originally Posted by Floyd

Wow. Such contradictions.

Incorrect. Christians CAN still sin, in fact: They do almost daily. The difference is that Jesus died on the cross for their sins thus they are washed away and become as pure as snow.

That's what Lip-Service is. He says do not give lip-service. As I said earlier: As a Christian: It's natural to prevent yourself from sinning.

Which is it, Floyd? These sentences (highlighted) were separated only by a quote. First you say Christians CAN and DO sin daily, and then that it's natural for Christians to prevent themselves from sinning! Pick one.

Congratulations. You have direct quotes. Jesus still said that there's no way to get to the father except through him thus the point remains. I would've thought that with your Bible-Quoting ability you'd know what I was talking about.

Exactly. No way to the Father except through Jesus. And Jesus demands that you follow the Law. ALL of it, not just the bits you like. In fact, Acts 17 indicates that God is going to be even more hardcore with the Law than before Jesus. This is in reference to idolatry, which God "winked at" because people were ignorant of the Law (only doing things like destroying their cities with fires and earthquakes, rather than condemning to eternal hellfire):

Acts 17:30-31
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Sorry mate. Everybody sins which is why Jesus died on the cross so that we can be without sin.

Sorry to you. Jesus died on the cross to put an end to regular animal sacrifices for sin, not to take away the Law or let you off the hook:


Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And as the good pastors have pointed out before me, we will be judged not just by faith, but by works.

Quick question though: Why is it the bastard's fault he was born out of wedlock? It's not like he had a choice in the matter. Should you not exclude the parents rather than the unfortunate child?

Only if you value your human logic over God's Word:

Deuteronomy 23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

I suppose your Pastor Feelgood has an "interpretation" of that as well?

[Wrong Again Floyd]

Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker

[/left]

I use the King James Version from 1611, the infallible Word of God, and one of the most respected Bibles in existance.
Not to mention it is the ONLY true Bible existing.

So this only goes to show your lack of Biblical knowledge...

Yes. How dare me not know which bible your small church reads from. That makes me so un-christian.

Now you're using your own opinon as an argument, I care not for it.
It makes you unsaved, that's what God says, and that's how it is.
PERIOD.

An interpretation is an opinion. Your interpretation on the Bible is your OPINION of the Bible. You cannot have a discussion on the Bible without bringing your interpretation\opinion on the bible into it.

You cannot get through life without judging! It's not possible.
Especially not if you're truly spiritual:

Hence all man has sin. That verse was more of a warning than anything else. It was basically saying: "I'll treat you how you treat others". Know what that means? Due to your absolute refusal to bend or see somebody elses point of view: You better pray that your interpretation of the Bible is accurate. If it isn't: You'll be burning in hell mate. Dont be arrogant: God says that's not a good thing and refusal to see somebody elses point by automatically dismissing it shows pride, arrogance and self-righteousness. 3 virtues that Jesus specifically said not to have.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 2:15

Thank you for proving my point. That verse is saying that no man shall be judged by man: Rather man is to be judged only by God. In other words: Dont judge your fellow man.

And if you will not even warn the wicked for their sins..
(Thus you must JUDGE who'se wicked and not) Then you're going to hell!

You dont have to judge somebody to learn if their wicked. You just need to know if they're a christian. If they're not a christian: Witness to them\convert them. After that: They'll be cured of wickedness wont they?

Once again:
This is an opinon with no base in the Bible, leave it out of this.

Opinons doesn't matter unless they are God's opinons, and yours aren't.

Once again: We're discussing each others interpretation of the Bible. Who's to say that your way of reading it is correct and mine is wrong (or vice-versa)? An Interpretation is an Opinion. Automatic dismissal of somebody elses Opinion\Interpretation of the Bible is Arrogant, Proud and Self-Righteous. Reminder: Jesus said not to have these virtues. You could also argue hypocrisy since you're so "righteous"

You're right; IT'S GOD PLACE.

And He tells us whom are deserving of His wrath in the Holy Bible!

We're only passing on the message, just like Samuel!
Oh wait, you probably don't even know who he was..

So God literally speaks to you? Y'know: There's places for people who hear voices inside their head.

Yes, everyone who has faith in him purifies himself of PAST acts, and cannot commit any future sin.

BUT as previously stated, faith without works is dead:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness:
And he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:20-24


As you can see, if you truly believe, you will do what God commands you.
If you truly love God, you will obey His commandments.

Hence (For the 5th time):

If you are a christian: You'll prevent yourself from sinning in the first place.

Besides: I'm not talking about acts such as helping grannies across the street. I'm talking about methods of worship. It says in the Bible that you should handle snakes and thus there are churches that do. Why dont you handle snakes or do you only take certain parts of the Bible literally?

Stop prancing around in circles:

Everyone can SAY that they have faith, BUT unless they do not follow Jesus, they are liars! (1 John 2:3-4)

Sixth time now:

If you are a christian: You'll prevent yourself from sinning in the first place.

If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15
^ That should pretty much settle it.

Seventh:

If you are a christian: You'll prevent yourself from sinning in the first place.

Total nonsense!

Arrogant, Hypocritical, Proud, Self-Righteous...should I go on?

You may call Jesus "Lord, Lord" all you wish in a church or outside a church but that alone won't save you!

Eighth:

If you are a christian: You'll prevent yourself from sinning in the first place.

Or are you saying that there are no false churches?
This is truly laughable.

You misunderstand. It's a metaphor. It basically says that if you worship from your heart where Jesus resides if you've accepted him as your saviour: You're never really outside the church.

I was never taught the Bible by anyone except the Holy Spirit!
I've learned it myself, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, so that baseless assumption won't get you anywhere.
Not to mention, I obviously know it alot better than you.

Yes: You can quote it, but it doesn't seem like you understand it very well. I could go quote a German version of the Bible and it'd be almost the same. And how can a Spirit teach you? Once again: Places for people who hear voices.

Though seeing as I study it every day, that's not very surprising.

You doesn't seem to read it much.

I did read it a long time ago before I started noticing how hypocritical churches can be.

No, you don't believe, if you did you wouldn't question God.
You are one of those who call Jesus "Lord" but have no works, you're no better than the demons mentioned in James 2:19..

Because I have a different interpretation of the Bible: I am a demon am I? Tell me: Do you know if I donate to charity? Or if I do any good deeds? Or are you making a grand sweeping self-righteous arrogant assumption?

First off, God hates people.
Let's clear that up right now.

Yes. Lets.

John 3:16: For God SO LOVED THE WORLD etc.

Once again: You can quote it, but you dont understand it. There seems to be a major flaw in your logic. Is it safe to assume you're female?

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:
Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalm 5:5

Yes: He hates sinners. He has proven this many times. That doesn't mean he hates humanity. After all: John 3:16.

Second, all of mankind? What kind of Bible are you reading????
Jesus says "YOUR NEIGHBOUR!"..
And who is our neighbour?

Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
Luke 10:36-37

Look up the word "Shewed". Here's a link

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Shewed

It means to show mercy. Jesus showed mercy on his neighbour and suggested you do otherwise.

Third, you don't kill anyone by hating them, that's an utterly retarded idea.

The word Hate-Crime mean anything to you? Hitler hated the Jews: He killed them. KKK hated the blacks: They killed them. All crime is a result of hate. Almost any crime is a sin (theivery, adultery, murder etc.).

Oh, did He now?
I must have missed Armageddon then!

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:17-18

Here is where heaven and earth passes away:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:1

Thank you for two quotes from the NEW Testament instead of the OLD Testament. You didn't prove anything except that you can quote the Bible.

As you probably know, this hasn't happened yet.
It takes place after the world is destroyed, after Armageddon!

Which is talked about in the NEW Testament. Y'know? The Relevant half of the Bible.

[Wrong Again Floyd]

I'll rebut your arguments first and then get into that lesson.

Originally Posted by OnYourKnees

You initially asked about different denominations, and how each denomination says different things, and that to get into Heaven, they want you do to different things, and that YOUR Pastor Feelgood tells you that they're ALL right, as long as they say they love Jesus.

No Pastor told me that they're all alright. This is my interpretation.

The Bible says otherwise, as Pastor Al has already demonstrated. Jesus came to enforce the Law:

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Wait: So Jesus says he's not here to destroy, yet he comes with a sword? Interesting.

Which is it, Floyd? These sentences (highlighted) were separated only by a quote. First you say Christians CAN and DO sin daily, and then that it's natural for Christians to prevent themselves from sinning! Pick one.

As I said: Prevention doesn't mean that it stops it all from happening. Doctors try to prevent people from dying yet sometimes it happens. For the second time now: Prevention does not mean "Stop Entirely". It means to reduce as much as you can.

Exactly. No way to the Father except through Jesus. And Jesus demands that you follow the Law. ALL of it, not just the bits you like. In fact, Acts 17 indicates that God is going to be even more hardcore with the Law than before Jesus. This is in reference to idolatry, which God "winked at" because people were ignorant of the Law (only doing things like destroying their cities with fires and earthquakes, rather than condemning to eternal hellfire):
Acts 17:30-31
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

God says there to follow Jesus (repent) because he's picked a day for the world to be judged. For what must be the 9th time now: If you're a real christian you should prevent yourself from sinning in the first place. I never denied that and I dont know why we're still arguing this point.

Sorry to you. Jesus died on the cross to put an end to regular animal sacrifices for sin, not to take away the Law or let you off the hook:

What? Jesus works for PETA? John 3:16 again:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that WHOEVER MAY BELIEVE IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE

What part of that dont you understand? If you belive\worship\have faith in Jesus: You will not perish but have everlasting life.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And as the good pastors have pointed out before me, we will be judged not just by faith, but by works.

Matthew's basically saying that being a christian does not mean you cant go around sinning without mercy. That would mean you're not a christian. As I've said 11 times now: If you're a christian: You'll try to stop yourself from sinning.

Only if you value your human logic over God's Word:

I'm not going to pretend to understand God's motives (EG: Why did he create sin? But dont go there, that's another massive argument for another day). His motives are illogical: But his word: Written by a human hand can be interpreted logically. If you posess logical thought that is.

Unless you want to tell me you're God and can understand his word outside of a human brain which I'm assuming you're equipped with.

Deuteronomy 23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

I suppose your Pastor Feelgood has an "interpretation" of that as well?

As I said: Old Testament rendered Irrelevant by New Testament.

[Wrong Again Floyd]

Friends, it is very common to hear hippy-dippy false Christians claim that all prayer is equally good to God, or that it doesn't matter how we live as long as we live morally, or some such similar nonsense. This is a very dangerous myth. The Lord is very particular about how He wants to be worshipped.

Leviticus 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

The sons of Aaron offered incense to the Lord when He hadn't asked them to, so He burns them to death. Got that? You praise the Lord when He tells you to, how He tells you to, and if you get it wrong, He'll kill you. Leviticus 10 also carries another good moral message for us: 1

Leviticus 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled.

Here, Moses (God's chosen emissary) tells Aaron not to mourn the death of his sons. If God kills your child for worshipping Him the wrong way, it is not your place to mourn God's decision, in case God gets offended and decides to kill you too. Praise!

The Lord is very strict about how He wants to be worshipped. Look at what happened to Korah:

Numbers 16:1 Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:
2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

So, Korah and his associates asked why, if all men are created equal, and God loves all His servants, why should some of them lift themselves up so much higher than the rest?

4 And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:
5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
6 This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company;
7 And put fire therein, and put incense in them before the LORD to morrow: and it shall be that the man whom the LORD doth choose, he shall be holy: ye take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi.

So, Moses challenges him to a kind of "holiness duel". Essentially, he just tells him to worship God, and see what happens.

31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
35 And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense. 1B

So God opens up the earth, and it swallowed up Korah, and all the men that appertained unto him, and everything they owned, including their houses. Then he burns 250 of Korah's friends who'd offered Him incense. It's important to bear in mind here that these folks weren't being killed for worshipping false gods; they were worshipping God, just not in the right way.

1\1 Yeah: God probably said dont play with incense around fire because IT IS FLAMMABLE. Incense + Fire = More Fire. Person + Fire = Death. He probably killed them for being absolute mormons.

Story of Moses: Old Testament: Effectively irrelevant. It's meant to be taken as a guide. This story I'd say was linked with not creating false gods. It's almost like they were worshipping Korah instead of what the Bible says.

This differs from what I suggest because I suggest that everybody should worship based on their own interpretation instead of enforcing man-made laws which is what seperate denominations.

Now kindly show me where in the Bible it says to dress up in robes to worship Christ. I'd also appreciate it if you showed me that "Free-Worship Time" that our church introduced is sanctioned by the Bible or condemned by it. Also the whole "Must-Eat-Fish-On-Friday" thing's another thing I haven't seen.

In fact: Just give me the verses in the Bible which explicitly say how you are meant to worship. Not from the Old Testament either.

[OnYourKnees]

Originally Posted by Floyd

1\1 Yeah: God probably said dont play with incense around fire because IT IS FLAMMABLE. Incense + Fire = More Fire. Person + Fire = Death. He probably killed them for being absolute mormons.

Story of Moses: Old Testament: Effectively irrelevant. It's meant to be taken as a guide. This story I'd say was linked with not creating false gods. It's almost like they were worshipping Korah instead of what the Bible says.

I'm guessing you didn't fare well in reading comprehension tests. Korah wanted to be priest to GOD. Nadab and Abihu brought the wrong incense (one God didn't like) before GOD.

"Instead of what the Bible says"? You say God's Word is false?

"Effectively irrelevant"? Jesus came to enforce the Law, not make it "irrelevant". Where did God say in the Bible that "it's meant to be taken as a guide"? Or did you "learn" that in your "church"?

And incense is to be burned. That's what you do with incense. YOU BURN IT. He killed them for not bringing the incense He liked, and for having the wrong people bring it (different reasons in the different stories). God's mighty particular.

This differs from what I suggest because I suggest that everybody should worship based on their own interpretation instead of enforcing man-made laws which is what seperate denominations.

Until you're God, we will follow what He commands, not what you suggest. But thanks for the input.

Now kindly show me where in the Bible it says to dress up in robes to worship Christ. I'd also appreciate it if you showed me that "Free-Worship Time" that our church introduced is sanctioned by the Bible or condemned by it. Also the whole "Must-Eat-Fish-On-Friday" thing's another thing I haven't seen.

Why (and how) would I show you things that aren't there?

Tell me, have you confused Baptists with Catholics? Those are Catholic things, the men-in-dresses and the no-meat and the pedophilia and the Mary-worship. We're Baptists.

As for "must-eat-fish-on-friday", Paul writes:

1 Timothy 4:1-3


Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Two great sins of the Catholic Church are right there. Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats. These, according to Paul, are the doctrines of devils!

In fact: Just give me the verses in the Bible which explicitly say how you are meant to worship. Not from the Old Testament either.

So you openly reject the bulk of God's Word? Truly, you are a vile False Christian, who claims to follow Jesus and then spits on His Word! Know you not that Jesus is God?!

[Wrong Again Floyd]

The bulk of God's word?

Dude: The Old Testament is basically just showing how much ass God can kick if you piss him off.

The New Testament is saying how you should live your life as a Christian.

Where's the Middle Testament that says exactly how you should worship? As far as I can see: All there is is communion.

Also: Dont misinterpret what I said: I do not think I am above God or anything like that: Which is exactly why I think we should worship based on our own interpretations. The moment somebody enforces their interpretation onto somebody else: They're being like that Korah bloke who got burned for it. God knows what's in your heart: He knows that if you worship the way he thinks he wants to be worshipped and you genuinely mean to please him: He's not going to hold it against you if you dont eat fish on Fridays.

And that's exactly my point of this whole topic.

[Wrong Again Floyd]

And because I forgot to add it:

Do you take everything absolutely literally? The examples I gave were exactly that: EXAMPLES. I'm not speaking out against any church in particular.

I also like how you twisted my words a bit and took them out of context. I say:

It's almost like they were worshipping Korah instead of what the Bible says.

You put it down as:

"Instead of what the Bible says"? You say God's Word is false?

I did not say that at all as the original quote said.

Also: I'd like to see where it says in the Bible that you have to follow every single letter of what it says. Or is this only selective literalism? Taking what bits you want to take literally and the rest of it metaphoric?

In regards to burning Incense: I know you burn incense but hey: Some Incense burns a lot more than others. Also the amount that they were burning could've had an impact.

[OnYourKnees]

Originally Posted by Floyd

And because I forgot to add it:

Do you take everything absolutely literally? The examples I gave were exactly that: EXAMPLES. I'm not speaking out against any church in particular.

I also like how you twisted my words a bit and took them out of context.



I did not say that at all as the original quote said.

Also: I'd like to see where it says in the Bible that you have to follow every single letter of what it says. Or is this only selective literalism? Taking what bits you want to take literally and the rest of it metaphoric?

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Story of Moses: Old Testament: Effectively irrelevant. It's meant to be taken as a guide. This story I'd say was linked with not creating false gods. It's almost like they were worshipping Korah instead of what the Bible says.

How did I take this out of context? You said, "It's almost like they were worshipping Korah, instead of what the Bible says." The Bible says, clearly, that Korah wanted to be priest to God. In no way does it suggest they were worshipping Korah. I twisted nothing. Did you misspeak?

I'll tell you what: You tell ME where the Bible says, "Take all these words, and just pick out the parts you like, whatever's convenient for you. You don't have to follow all of it if you don't want to."

We take every word literally, none metaphorically. You have already been told in this very thread what Jesus said about no part of the Law passing away. Here's a bit more of God's Word for you to "interpret":

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 28:14
And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

Ezra 6:11
Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this.

How do you INTERPRET those? HMM?

Oh, you'll say, those are in that silly OLD Testament. That doesn't apply anymore, according to Lord Floyd, who knows better than God. Well here, let's try something from the NEW Testament:

1 John 2:1-7
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 7Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Hmm, sounds like yet another restatement of THE LAW, eh what, MATE?

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Gee, that's pretty straightforward. Going to INTERPRET that?