[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

Do you agree with the Fifth Commandment- you shall not kill?

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

Do you agree with the Fifth Commandment- you shall not kill?

I'm almost as shocked at your accusng me of being a murderer as am an unsurprized by your dodging the question, and your attempt to accuse the Bible of containing contraditions.

So, for the record, I agree with the 5ths comnmandment, I am not a murderer, you need to answer the questions I asked you, and no, the Bible does not contain contradictions.

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

I did not accuse you of being a murderer. I asked you if you agreed with the 5th commandment, which is "You shall not kill."

You all think you are very smart trying to twist everyone's words and make them look like they are saying something that they're not.
You are also incredibly hypocritical- answer your question? Why don't you answer the pages of mine before you go on with your random homosexual death penalty stuff?

Please read my links and answer everything on my most recent longer post before we move on to another subject. I have given you that courtesy, and I have answered all of your accusations and replied to your statements in order, and I ask you to give it to me in return.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

All I asked for was a "Yes" or a "No". Not very hard to do.

You asked me a yes/no question and I answered it.

Why don't you answer the pages of mine

Maybe because there's PAGES OF IT?

I'm not asking you to read pages of stuff, I'm just asking for a yes or a no:

Do you agree that homosexuality should be punished with the death penalty?

Do you believe that fortunetelling should be punished with the death penalty?

Do you support the rules of engagement given to Christian armies in the Book of Joshua?

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

I was asked earlier in a private message to not captialize my letters because it looked like yelling. I ask you to do the same, or let me write how I will.

No.

No.

Yes. At the time. I believe in the Bible and I believe in God's infinite wisdom. But when Jesus came, he came preaching a message of forgiveness and mercy. "Turning the other cheek" and "not judging". Believing anything else, especially believing that Christ cannot forgive certain sinners, is heretical.

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

Also, I ask you not to dismiss all of my answers because there are alot of them? (Sorry, I have to use more words for people with less common sense )

You gave me many things to answer earlier, and I did. Do the same for me please.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

Do you agree that homosexuality should be punished with the death penalty?

No.

Do you believe that fortunetelling should be punished with the death penalty?

No.

So you think you know more than God?

Do you support the rules of engagement given to Christian armies in the Book of Joshua?

Yes.

Ill go into more detail on this in a later post, just to confirm this.

At the time.

Oh, so you also believe in the 10 commandments - at the time? Who are you to decide what is to be obeyed always and what is to be obeyed "at the time". And it it's "at the time" why is it in the Bible TODAY? Are you saying that most of the Bible is only of interest to historians?

But when Jesus came, he came preaching a message of forgiveness and mercy

So you think we should give forgiveness and mercy to terrorists and child rapists and serial killers and so on? And if not, what's the big difference between homosexuals and serial killers, when the Bible doesn't state any difference? Who are you to decide who to dole out the "forgiveness and mercy" to?

believing that Christ cannot forgive certain sinners, is heretical.

And you accuse ME of putting words in your mouth? Where did we say THAT? Of course Jesus can forgive homosexuals. But we still have to execute them.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

Thank you J I pride myself on being a strong, educated woman who can defend herself. My inspiration is Proverbs 31.

Proverbs 31 is also one of my all-time favorites:

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

It shows that God does not agree with any of this nonsense about "social security" and "head start" and "scholarships" for the poor. God says the poor will always be with us, so the best anti-poverty initiative is to just give 'em some vodka and let them forget their poverty for a while.

However, I have a feeling that your favorite part of Proverbs 31 is this:

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.

Okay, now why is God comparing a virtuous woman to rubies?

Rubies, like virtuous women, are RARE, they are pieces of property, and their job is to look pretty, and that's about it.

There is no support for women being "strong, educated and able to defend themselves" anywhere in the Bible, and certainly not in Proverbs 31.

So where are all these pages of questions you wanted me to answer? All I can find is pages of womanly chattering and babbling.

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

No, I in no way know more than God. I just know that God did not give us the right or his blessing to take bodily killing of sinners into our hands. If there is a verse saying that, please make me aware. Jesus Christ did not let them stone the prostitute, telling them that the person who has never sinned before should cast the first stone. They all went away. He said, "Has no one condemned you?" And when she answered that they had not, He said, "Neither do I condemn you." That is the mercy of God. And in the Bible, prostitutes and fornicators are up there with homosexuals, so according to you, why shouldn't we kill them all too?

There are practices in the Old Testament that are disqualified in the New Testament. God used his infinite wisdom in guiding the army in the Book of Joshua, but later says not to kill the innocent.

Did you just say "we still have to execute them"?
Have you killed anyone? Because according to you, you would be going against the law of God to not kill any homosexuals you have encountered. So I ask you- have you killed anyone?

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

No, I in no way know more than God. I just know that God did not give us the right or his blessing to take bodily killing of sinners into our hands.

You just said you agreed with the book of Joshua, and now this?

God is a God of war, and he isn't bothered by collateral damage. Rather, he insists upon it. "So Joshua ... utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded." (10:40)
And he's not just an innocent bystander either. He is an active combatant. "The Lord God fought for Israel." (10:42) God "slew them with a great slaughter" and even "chased them along the way." Sometimes he "threw down great stones from heaven," and once he even stopped the sun from moving so that he and the Israelites could finish all their killing before sundown. (10:10-12)

• Joshua killed "everything that breathed" in each of the cities that he conquered, "as the Lord God of Israel commanded." 6:21, 8:24 - 40, 11:8 - 21
• A family is stoned and burned to death (along with their animals) to punish the father (Achan) for looking at "the accursed thing." "So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger." 7:24-26
• God gets right in and fights with the Israelites. He "slew them with a great slaughter" and even "chased them along the way." 10:10
• God threw down "great stones from heaven" so that he could kill even more people than the Israelites "slew with the sword." 10:11
• God makes the sun and moon stand still so that Joshua could get all his killing done before dark. 10:12-13
• "For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly." 11:20
• Remember that God "is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins." 24:19

There are practices in the Old Testament that are disqualified in the New Testament.

So you're saying that 3 quarters of the Bible is nothing but filler material. And you're saying that God contradicts himself. Does that sound like a very Christian thing to say?

Have you killed anyone? Because according to you, you would be going against the law of God to not kill any homosexuals you have encountered.

I have to follow the laws, the Bible tells me so. Once Biblical Law is enacted, homosexuals will be executed after due process. We are not calling for vigilantism. That's what Iranians do.

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

IN that battle, Joshua did as God commanded.
I want a word-for-word verse about God commanding us to bodily kill homosexuals, prostitutes, fornicators, thieves, drunkards, revilers, robbers, etc.
"And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:11

So... God forgives. through the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus dying on the cross, God shows his mercy. Christ had not died yet in the Old Testament, when the Book of Joshua (which you are quoting from) was written. How could they be forgiven without Christ's sacrifice?

So, again, I ask you for Biblical word-for-word proof that God commands us to execute sinners.

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

"She considers a field and buys it."
A woman making smart business decisions.

"She opens her hand to the poor, and reaches out her hands to the needy."
She is generous, goodhearted, and helps the poor.

"Strength and dignity are her clothing"
She is strong, respectful, and dignified.

"She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. She looks well to the ways of her household."
She is smart, wise, and kind, and is able to run her household.

"Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her."

"...beauty is vain."
What was that you said about women just able to sit and look pretty?

All from Proverbs 31, correctly quoted and not out of context, as your quotes often are. Have you ever read Proverbs 31, Mr. Thermond? Because I recall you saying that there is nothing about women being strong or smart in there. Are you contradicting the Bible sir?

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

For the record, I am a Republican, and am not some radical feminist like you may think I am. I do believe in the dignity and strength of women, though, as I should. The Bible says so. I believe that a woman can be smart and educated and hardworking, just like Proverbs 31 says. I believe that a woman should be completely respected by men and by her husband. I believe that, while different, men and women are equal in the eyes of God.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

IN that battle, Joshua did as God commanded.
I want a word-for-word verse about God commanding us to bodily kill homosexuals...

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

ENJOY!

Whats with this "bodily kill" you keep talking about? Is there some other way to kill people that I don't know about?

Here's three chapters of biblical law, with the parts demanding the death penalty in bold:

Leviticus 20

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
4And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
5Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
6And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
7Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
8And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.
9For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
10And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
14And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
15And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
16And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
17And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
18And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
19And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.
20And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
21And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.
22Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
24But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.
25Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.
26And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Exodus 21


12He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
13And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee.
14But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
15And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
16And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
17And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
18And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed:
19If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.
20And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
22If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
27And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
28If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.
29But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.
30If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.
31Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him.
32If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
33And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein;
34The owner of the pit shall make it good, and give money unto the owner of them; and the dead beast shall be his.
35And if one man's ox hurt another's, that he die; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the money of it; and the dead ox also they shall divide. 36Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own.

Exodus 22


1If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.
2If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
3If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
4If the theft be certainly found in his hand alive, whether it be ox, or ass, or sheep; he shall restore double.
5If a man shall cause a field or vineyard to be eaten, and shall put in his beast, and shall feed in another man's field; of the best of his own field, and of the best of his own vineyard, shall he make restitution.
6If fire break out, and catch in thorns, so that the stacks of corn, or the standing corn, or the field, be consumed therewith; he that kindled the fire shall surely make restitution.
7If a man shall deliver unto his neighbour money or stuff to keep, and it be stolen out of the man's house; if the thief be found, let him pay double.
8If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods.
9For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.
10If a man deliver unto his neighbour an ass, or an ox, or a sheep, or any beast, to keep; and it die, or be hurt, or driven away, no man seeing it:
11Then shall an oath of the LORD be between them both, that he hath not put his hand unto his neighbour's goods; and the owner of it shall accept thereof, and he shall not make it good.
12And if it be stolen from him, he shall make restitution unto the owner thereof.
13If it be torn in pieces, then let him bring it for witness, and he shall not make good that which was torn.
14And if a man borrow ought of his neighbour, and it be hurt, or die, the owner thereof being not with it, he shall surely make it good.
15But if the owner thereof be with it, he shall not make it good: if it be an hired thing, it came for his hire.
16And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
17If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
19Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
20He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
21Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
22Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
23If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
24And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.
25If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.
26If thou at all take thy neighbour's raiment to pledge, thou shalt deliver it unto him by that the sun goeth down:
27For that is his covering only, it is his raiment for his skin: wherein shall he sleep? and it shall come to pass, when he crieth unto me, that I will hear; for I am gracious.
28Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
29Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.
30Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen, and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with his dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it me. 31And ye shall be holy men unto me: neither shall ye eat any flesh that is torn of beasts in the field; ye shall cast it to the dogs.

So, again, I ask you for Biblical word-for-word proof that God commands us to execute sinners.

Let me guess, you're going to say that posting three uninterupted chapters is "quoting out of context".

[kmarie]

Re: 11 deadly sins of the Catholic Church

While I answer your last post, will you please answer my last 3?
Have you ever read Proverbs 31 Mr. Thurmond?