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Pastor of Hermeneutics and Apologetics Bathed in Christ's Precious Blood Apostle to the Cactuses, Tumbleweeds and Jackrabbits
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Location: With my nose stuck in the Bible.
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Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-07-2012, 04:23 AM
Dr. Bart Ehrman and I think so. In a piece he submitted in the liberal media to promote his most excellent new book Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth,' I haven't read it yet, but I gave it five stars on Amazon already.
Quote:
In a society in which people still claim the Holocaust did not happen, the man on whom the most powerful and influential social, political, economic, cultural and religious institution in the world -- the Christian church -- was built, the man worshipped, literally, by billions of people today -- is it any surprise to hear that Jesus never even existed?
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This is rather mild compared to what Dr. Ehrman and I think that he spoke about in an interview with some atheist who was trying to trip him up.
The highlights for you who don't watch video or can't right now.
At :36 in, he reminds us that no serious scholar believes there was no historical Jesus.
At 1:23 he tells us that Jesus is a historical fact and not multiple people and we know many facts about Him. He goes on to speak about multiple stories of this historical figure being told by different people. So much so that you get these historical factual portraits that begin to emerge about Him as the Gospels tell us. The Bible proves the Bible.
At 2:00 minutes in the good Dr. goes in for the kill by asking, "What are the core evidences that Julius Caesar existed?" This is so incredibly true. We have the Gospels that prove Jesus. They have so much less that proves Caesar. I mean, it's not even close how much more evidence there is for Jesus.
Just look at whose statue is bigger.
2:30 "If you don't look at the historical evidence [for Jesus], why don't you just deny the holocaust?"
We all know that in Europe, they have stiff penalties for " whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media."
And I couldn't agree more. Holocaust deniers have no place in our society! They are evil, stupid and offensive. But then again, so are Jesus deniers.
I want to know what you think should happen to those who deny Jesus.
Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.
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Honorary True Christian™
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Location: North Salem, Indiana
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-07-2012, 04:30 AM
Brother, I think they should be given the opportunity to attend Jesus Camp for a summer before being packed off to a prison colony in Australia. (Unless they repent, of course.)
Bible boring? Nonsense!
Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
You can't be a Christian if you don't know God's Word!
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True Christian™
True Christian™
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Posts: 609
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Location: Forrest Park, Memphis
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-07-2012, 09:53 AM
Depends on scope, but heavy fines are fine for ordinary cases. Chain gang is appropriate for broadcasting the lies.
In addition, I suggest a similar punishment for Rapture denial.
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Former Mary Hailer who has seen The Light©
True Christian™
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Location: Surrounded By Married Homos and Baby Killers in Godless England
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-07-2012, 10:52 AM
The very idea that the evidence for Jesus is somewhat sketchy therefore He didn't actually exist or is some legendary construct like Robin Hood flies in the face of the divine nature of the Bible and should be vigorously punished as blasphemy.
We only need to look at how effectively the Muslims stop people from questioning their wholly fabricated moon god's messenger Mohammed by killing them on the spot to see what is missing from the laws of our Christian nations for them to truly represent God's will. If they can get people to shut up and do as their fake god commands then how much more powerful would it be if the real and mighty God of Abraham, Moses and JESUS were similarly backed up by His rulers.
Numbers 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Deuteronomy 17:12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
There's a theme developing here from just the smallest look at God's word. Death penalty is God's way, or at the very least exile.
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Apostle of the North
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-07-2012, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Jones
At :36 in, he reminds us that no serious scholar believes there was no historical Jesus.
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This cannot be stressed enough. During all my years at the Landover Baptist University for the Saved I've never come across anybody who entertained such silly notions as to deny the existence of a Historical Jesus in spite of a ton of evidence to the contrary.
Come to think of it, we don't have any Nigra scholars at the L.U. either. Do we need more proof that Jesus-deniers (and Nigras) are just a tiny fringe group that we can safely ignore?
If the Richard Carriers and Robert M. Prices of this world want to eat, let them do a buck dance for a meal.
1st Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1st Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1st Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
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Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
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Posts: 79,909
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Location: Freehold, Iowa
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-07-2012, 03:58 PM
Ehrman, huh?
Sounds jooish.
Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)
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Apostle of the North
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Posts: 11,869
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: On a mission to bring Christianity to the North
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-07-2012, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel
Ehrman, huh?
Sounds jooish.
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Looks (and names) can deceive. If you read one of his books (and you only need to read one since they are all just rehashes of each other), he tells us that he entered The Moody Bible Institute as, quote "a born-again, fundamentalist Christian, certain that God had inspired the wording of the Bible and protected its texts from all error", unquote.
Some people think he temporarily lapsed into Agnosticism, but Pastor Levi's post proves what you and I have always known: Once you're saved, Jesus has sealed you unto the day of redemption. Praise!
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
1st Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1st Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1st Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
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Pastor of Hermeneutics and Apologetics Bathed in Christ's Precious Blood Apostle to the Cactuses, Tumbleweeds and Jackrabbits
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Posts: 14,181
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: With my nose stuck in the Bible.
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 04:54 PM
"Jesus deniers are Internet kooks. (They are) are conspiracy theorists trying to sell books. There are people out there who don’t think the Holocaust happened, there wasn’t a lone JFK assassin and Obama wasn’t born in the U.S., Among them are people who don’t think Jesus existed.”" - Bart D. Ehrman
Oh, Brother Bart! You tell them!
Then, there's this unsaved piece of trash who claims he used to be a Christian, but we all know that's not true. No one who used to be a True Christian™ could turn to Jesus denial.
“I don’t think I’m some Internet kook or Holocaust denier,” says Robert Price, a former Baptist pastor who argues in “Deconstructing Jesus” that a historical Jesus probably didn’t exist.
“They say I’m a bitter ex-fundamentalist. It’s pathetic to see this character assassination. That’s what people resort to when they don’t have solid arguments.”
I guess the fact that he's some internet kook holocaust denier somehow prompts him to say that he isn't?
Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.
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Confirmed Enemy of God
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Posts: 161
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 05:05 PM
I don't think that people who deny the existence of Jesus or of the Holocaust should be punished. They have as much right to their opinions and beliefs as anyone else.
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Pastor of Hermeneutics and Apologetics Bathed in Christ's Precious Blood Apostle to the Cactuses, Tumbleweeds and Jackrabbits
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Posts: 14,181
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: With my nose stuck in the Bible.
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur-de-lis
I don't think that people who deny the existence of Jesus or of the Holocaust should be punished. They have as much right to their opinions and beliefs as anyone else.
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So you chose option "D". You hate Jesus and love Hitler. I see.
Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.
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Confirmed Enemy of God
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Jones
So you chose option "D". You hate Jesus and love Hitler. I see.
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No, I don't hate Jesus or love Hitler. I think that Jesus was a really nice guy and Hitler was a cruel dictator, but since I never met either one, I can't have any personal emotional connection, positive or negative, to them.
I just think that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs, as long as they don't use those opinions/beliefs as an excuse to hurt others.
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Psychotheological Analyst Therapist
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Location: Surrounded by queers.
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur-de-lis
No, I don't hate Jesus or love Hitler. I think that Jesus was a really nice guy and Hitler was a cruel dictator, but since I never met either one, I can't have any personal emotional connection, positive or negative, to them.
I just think that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs, as long as they don't use those opinions/beliefs as an excuse to hurt others.
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So you are saying Hitler had a right to kill thousands of Allied soldiers? All those men died for you you ungrateful woman!
YIC
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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Former Mary Hailer who has seen The Light©
True Christian™
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Posts: 10,391
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Surrounded By Married Homos and Baby Killers in Godless England
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur-de-lis
I don't think that people who deny the existence of Jesus or of the Holocaust should be punished. They have as much right to their opinions and beliefs as anyone else.
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Except they don't.
Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
Making up stuff and then saying it is not the same as being right.
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Confirmed Enemy of God
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Posts: 161
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence Niles
So you are saying Hitler had a right to kill thousands of Allied soldiers? All those men died for you you ungrateful woman!
YIC
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What part of "as long as they don't use those opinions as an excuse to hurt others" did you not understand?
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Former Mary Hailer who has seen The Light©
True Christian™
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Posts: 10,391
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Surrounded By Married Homos and Baby Killers in Godless England
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur-de-lis
What part of "as long as they don't use those opinions as an excuse to hurt others" did you not understand?
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We're not using opinions as an excuse for anything. We're following God's commandments without question because He is God. What makes you think we have opinions when it comes to what is right by God?
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Apostle of the North
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Jones
"Jesus deniers are Internet kooks. (They are) are conspiracy theorists trying to sell books.
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That is obviously true. Why would anybody claim that Jesus never existed -- unless it was a ploy to sell their books?
I can't wait till I receive Ehrman's latest book and read all about these kooks who are just trying to peddle their books.
1st Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1st Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1st Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
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Southern Hospitality Exemplified Always kind and loving
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Location: mostly at the Cracker Barrel
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur-de-lis
I just think that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs, as long as they don't use those opinions/beliefs as an excuse to hurt others.
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If we do as you say and quit enforcing God's opinions, then everyone will be doing what they want, which means they'll be sodomizing cats and stomping on the still-unformed heads of newborns. Where will it stop? Surely even you can see that such would never work. Jesus' Way is the only Way!
Pastor Ed
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Anti La Leche League Organizer
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Location: VT--the Green Mountain State
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-08-2012, 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ed Lowman
they'll be sodomizing cats and stomping on the still-unformed heads of newborns.
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And probably poor defenseless earless wabbits, too.
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Confirmed Enemy of God
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-09-2012, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ed Lowman
If we do as you say and quit enforcing God's opinions, then everyone will be doing what they want, which means they'll be sodomizing cats and stomping on the still-unformed heads of newborns. Where will it stop? Surely even you can see that such would never work. Jesus' Way is the only Way!
Pastor Ed
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Again I must ask, what part of "as long as they don't use those opinions/beliefs as an excuse to hurt others" did you not understand?
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Honorary True Christian™
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Re: Worse than Nazis? Should people who deny Jesus' existence be fined and imprisoned? -
04-09-2012, 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur-de-lis
No, I don't hate Jesus or love Hitler. I think that Jesus was a really nice guy
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What gave you the impression Jesus is a "very nice guy"?
Is it how He told His disciples that if they didn't hate their parents and families, they were not worthy of Him?
Is it how He brutally assaulted the moneychangers in the temple, who were only doing their jobs?
Is it how He cursed and killed a fig tree for not having figs for Him, even when it was out of season for figs?
Or is it how He has promised to cast every single nonbeliever, homosexual, adulterer, liar, fornicator, etc. into unending torment in His Lake of Fire?
Bible boring? Nonsense!
Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
You can't be a Christian if you don't know God's Word!
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