[Student of Landover]

Well, if a child cannot be homeschooled as they should, then the schools should be teaching them proper values and skills. Not only should every teacher be trained in and carry firearms, they should pass on that training to the young boys in preparation for their subsequent military service.

[rehmwski]

Well, if a child cannot be homeschooled as they should, then the schools should be teaching them proper values and skills. Not only should every teacher be trained in and carry firearms, they should pass on that training to the young boys in preparation for their subsequent military service.

krahos te? You sick?

[Student of Landover]

Originally Posted by rehmwski

krahos te? You sick?

Can anybody understand this heathen? Anybody? Please speak only in God's language, American.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Student of Landover

Can anybody understand this heathen? Anybody? Please speak only in God's language, American.

I have no idea what that gibberish means either. In any event, Jesus has sent this demon on its way and it will trouble us no more.

[Student of Landover]

Just out of curiosity, what is your favourite gun, Ezekiel?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

The Model 500 Smith and Wesson Magnum Revolver

The 500 is the most powerful production revolver in the world today, firing the S&W .500 Magnum. The 500 holds 5 rounds. The .500 Smith and Wesson calibre can fire at incredible velocities and deliver an unusually large quantity of kinetic energy - the most high-powered commercial round weighing 440 grains (28.5 g) has a muzzle energy of 2600 foot·pounds force (3.5 kJ). However handloaders have experimented with 500 grain bullets developing 3000+ foot·pounds (4.1 kJ) of muzzle energy.

Warmly greeted by firearm-enthusiasts, it has been back-ordered since its introduction in 2003. Articles, statements, and opinions vary widely on this firearm. It has been described in magazines as the most versatile hunting firearm on the market. As with its wide range of bullets it can hunt smaller species, or in the 440 grain (28.5 g) variant has been successfully used to take down an african elephant. Any of the available bullet weights can be relied on to take game at a range in excess of 200 yards (180 m), a feat matched by only a handful of other pistol-type firearms.

While firearms of this size can scare potential shooters with the recoil, the advanced design of the firearm helps in counteracting recoil felt by the shooter. This includes the sheer weight of the firearm, use of rubber grips, the forward balance, and the use of a compensator. (Traded for a full muzzle brake on the performance center model) These additions make the firearm entirely manageable for those accustomed to the shooting of large caliber handguns, but still extreme for an inexperienced shooter.

I own 3 of these beauties....

By the way, you WILL address me as Pastor Ezekiel.

[Marshall]

Lord Jesus bless this glorious thread on Your favorite website! Praise Jesus better late than never!

Personally I prefer the M203 A3. Nice and Godly with a big cannon on bottom.

[Atheist_Sinner]

Originally Posted by Pastor Al E Pistle

The first thing you will have to do is figure out how to close the space between the cylinder and the forcing cone. You see, with a revolver (or 'wheel gun') The bullet has to pass through an air gap before it gets into the barrel. That same air gap lets out (1) unburned powder and (2) noise. I suppose you could carry around a bunch of foam pillows sewn together like a giant mitten and fire through that, but some noise is still going to get out.

An excellent suppressor is the body or brain cavity. Israeli hit squads use a small .22 auto pressed against the back of the person's head. Very effective.

I hate to dig up dead threads like this but I simply could not let this stand from a group of people who truly think they know guns. I, being a gun-loving liberal atheist, expected much better from the gun-loving ultra-conservtive Christians who seem to think they hold the monopoly on the concept of the 2nd amendment as a fundamental right.

The Nagant Revolver pulls the expended cartridge back, turns the cylinder, and then pushes the cartridge up into the barrel as part of its action causing the jacket to expand and seal the chamber when it is fired. The Nagant pistol is one of the only pistols in the world that can actually be silenced (Suppression is NOT silencing) and has been used as an assassination weapon for decades because with subsonic ammunition loads and a good suppressor, it is one of the quietest weapons in the world and does not leave a shell casing. The major downside being the absurd rarity of ammunition at this time because though it can chamber several rounds mass-produced now, none of them are capable of being silenced like the short 7.62 Nagant shell that is required for the gas sealing action that makes this revolver unique.


In a somewhat unrelated note: I'm sarcastic but I simply cannot muster the level required to fit in here as a "God-fearing Sociopath" but I really appreciate the good work going on here and think this is among the best "series of tubes" on the Internet.

[Atheist_Sinner]

Before anyone jumps to calling me a gun heretic, you can check any source on the internet with decent info on the Nagant and it will mention the excessively complicated chambering method as its the only remarkable aspect of the revolver.

For example:
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/HG102-E.HTM
or
http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/nagant.html

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Nagnt revolvers...at least the single action ones are popular in cowboy matches because they qualify. I have a new officer's model. I have never fired it, nor my new SKS, nor my Collector Grade DCM M1 Garand, still in cosmoline.

The Nagant WAS used as assassination weapon because that's all the Russians had, not because of their wonderful silencing qualities.

Tell ya what, take your .22 Ruger MkII out back with a good Ciener silencer and a .22 LR and see if you can tell the difference between that and a .22 subsonic load or a .22 short.

If you had ever shot one, or BEEN shot at, you would understand that the sonic 'boom' from a .30 cal bullet past about fifty feet from the point of fire is only audible if it passes within about three inches of your head. Then it sounds like someone cracking a dry tree branch next to your ear. I know. I have heard that sound from a 7.62x39 about five times too many.

If you want a throw-away gun, get a Makarov and build a silencer. The woods in Maryland are full of them. Get a metal detector.

I have a Chinese barrel-break airgun with a 12x scope in 6.5mm that has been used to take out a stationary target at 40 meters with a shot through the eye. The shot was not heard by the spotter twenty feet away, and it went out at 930 FPS, well over the speed of sound at sea level. It wasn't the prettiest shot I ever saw, because the target didn't die, but he was unable to do his job anymore.

Better yet, put your head in a gas oven and turn on the gas until JESUS drop-kicks you onto SATAN's dancing pole.

[Atheist_Sinner]

Originally Posted by Pastor Al E Pistle

Nagnt revolvers...at least the single action ones are popular in cowboy matches because they qualify. I have a new officer's model. I have never fired it, nor my new SKS, nor my Collector Grade DCM M1 Garand, still in cosmoline.

The Nagant WAS used as assassination weapon because that's all the Russians had, not because of their wonderful silencing qualities.

Tell ya what, take your .22 Ruger MkII out back with a good Ciener silencer and a .22 LR and see if you can tell the difference between that and a .22 subsonic load or a .22 short.

If you had ever shot one, or BEEN shot at, you would understand that the sonic 'boom' from a .30 cal bullet past about fifty feet from the point of fire is only audible if it passes within about three inches of your head. Then it sounds like someone cracking a dry tree branch next to your ear. I know. I have heard that sound from a 7.62x39 about five times too many.

If you want a throw-away gun, get a Makarov and build a silencer. The woods in Maryland are full of them. Get a metal detector.

I have a Chinese barrel-break airgun with a 12x scope in 6.5mm that has been used to take out a stationary target at 40 meters with a shot through the eye. The shot was not heard by the spotter twenty feet away, and it went out at 930 FPS, well over the speed of sound at sea level. It wasn't the prettiest shot I ever saw, because the target didn't die, but he was unable to do his job anymore.

As far as the sonic boom goes, its not so much the person being shot at that you need to worry about finding you. Its the man standing behind you that has the best chance of stopping you once he realizes that someone has been shot. The less noise that leaves the gun, the less likely someone is to look in your direction before you put the gun away. That doesn't matter much if you can draw someone into a private place but could mean the difference between escape or capture when going after someone who couldn't be isolated.

While its true that those were used in part because they were readily available, they were simply one of the best short-range assassination weapons on Earth. When planning an assassination, I would imagine a few hundred dollars (after adjusting for inflation) to import a good gun is the least of your worries, even if you are as poor as Cold War Russia. Using a poor weapon for an important single action makes about as much sense for a nation-state as borrowing books from a US library does for Al-Quaeda. If you're taking the time to plan something properly, you aren't going to risk it over a week's worth of minimum wage. With a well-suppressed Nagant (petroleum gel cooled and insulated baffles) and subsonic ammunition, the loudest sound to escape the gun is the click of the hammer hitting the shell. With a decent wind blowing or a car running, the shooter wouldn't hear a Nagant Revolver firing and it would hold significantly more power than any concealable air-powered weapon.

The Nagant was capable of becoming the world's quietest semi-automatic weapon and on-par with bolt-actions (custom-made if they're pistol-sized) or single-shots (lower kill reliability, inability to take out an observer, and useless for a possible but unlikely firefight afterward).

Better yet, put your head in a gas oven and turn on the gas until JESUS drop-kicks you onto SATAN's dancing pole.

So... one needs a hallucinogen to interact with Jews that have been dead for 2,000 years. A lot of things about you Christians make sense now.

[Nobar King]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Sinner

In a somewhat unrelated note: I'm sarcastic but I simply cannot muster the level required to fit in here as a "God-fearing Sociopath" but I really appreciate the good work going on here and think this is among the best "series of tubes" on the Internet.

We would agree, potential brother athiest (at least about the tubes part). Keep reading, Jesus would hate to lose you again. God knows, the Landover undercover security detail always needs good advice and information about the latest in weaponry that you can't always get at Iowa's local gun shows. I suppose it would be prudent to have a non Christian (or an ex-Christian, who knows?) around for potentially unsanctionable actions. Are you an ex-Christian, btw?

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Sinner

As far as the sonic boom goes, its not so much the person being shot at that you need to worry about finding you. Its the man standing behind you that has the best chance of stopping you once he realizes that someone has been shot. The less noise that leaves the gun, the less likely someone is to look in your direction before you put the gun away. That doesn't matter much if you can draw someone into a private place but could mean the difference between escape or capture when going after someone who couldn't be isolated.

While its true that those were used in part because they were readily available, they were simply one of the best short-range assassination weapons on Earth. When planning an assassination, I would imagine a few hundred dollars (after adjusting for inflation) to import a good gun is the least of your worries, even if you are as poor as Cold War Russia. Using a poor weapon for an important single action makes about as much sense for a nation-state as borrowing books from a US library does for Al-Quaeda. If you're taking the time to plan something properly, you aren't going to risk it over a week's worth of minimum wage. With a well-suppressed Nagant (petroleum gel cooled and insulated baffles) and subsonic ammunition, the loudest sound to escape the gun is the click of the hammer hitting the shell. With a decent wind blowing or a car running, the shooter wouldn't hear a Nagant Revolver firing and it would hold significantly more power than any concealable air-powered weapon.

The Nagant was capable of becoming the world's quietest semi-automatic weapon and on-par with bolt-actions (custom-made if they're pistol-sized) or single-shots (lower kill reliability, inability to take out an observer, and useless for a possible but unlikely firefight afterward).

So... one needs a hallucinogen to interact with Jews that have been dead for 2,000 years. A lot of things about you Christians make sense now.

Well, an excellent Nagant is $79.95 from JG sales. Like I said, I have a couple and, because of their age, they don't require registration. But I'm not an assassin and neither are you, so what is your point?

[Atheist_Sinner]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

We would agree, potential brother athiest (at least about the tubes part). Keep reading, Jesus would hate to lose you again. God knows, the Landover undercover security detail always needs good advice and information about the latest in weaponry that you can't always get at Iowa's local gun shows. I suppose it would be prudent to have a non Christian (or an ex-Christian, who knows?) around for potentially unsanctionable actions. Are you an ex-Christian, btw?

I'm afraid I've never been, nor can I forsee myself becoming, a Christian. I've looked at the track record for all 4 of the major theistic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism) and have come to the conclusion that while religion may help some individual people, organized belief in one or more deities of any kind is the single worst thing to happen to mankind.

A small sample of Christianity's track record:
392CE (Common Era, for those who think Google is for the devil): Theodesius (Roman Emperor) orders the destruction of all non-Christian places of worship currently in use
435: Being a non-Christian (Jews were generally tolerated) was declared a capital crime in Rome
1209: An Army under orders from the Pope begins rampaging through Southern France killing both non-Christians and Christians who held "heretical beliefs". When asked how to determine which residents were "True Christians" they were told essentially to kill them all and let God sort them.
1095-1272: The Crusades (lots of them)
1184-mid1800s: The Inquisition(s)
Protestant Reformation Violence
"Bloody" Mary I attempts to recovnvert England to Catholicism from Aglicanism by putting high-level religious leaders to death
1930s: The Holocaust (not religiously lead but quite religiously motivated)
General persecution of every other religion
General persecution of other sects of Christianity
General persecution of homosexuals
General persecution of witches
(its important to note that "persecution of" includes vandalism, violence, and murder)

So, please, enlighten me as to exactly what would fall into the category of "unsanctionable actions" as I am at a complete loss to find an action that hasn't already been sanctioned except, perhaps, attempting to directly enlist Satan himself for your cause.

[Atheist_Sinner]

Originally Posted by Pastor Al E Pistle

Well, an excellent Nagant is $79.95 from JG sales. Like I said, I have a couple and, because of their age, they don't require registration. But I'm not an assassin and neither are you, so what is your point?

Your assertion that revolvers could not be silenced is untrue and that revolvers do, in fact, make more silent weapons than semi-autos. I'll agree with you though that this did get a bit out of hand.

Personally, I've considered buying a Nagant and fabricating a silencer to play with with but the prospect of that much small welding and 7.62nagant ammo costing over a buck every time you fire (from my understanding the case distorts when firing so it can't be reloaded).

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Sinner

Your assertion that revolvers could not be silenced is untrue and that revolvers do, in fact, make more silent weapons than semi-autos. I'll agree with you though that this did get a bit out of hand.

Personally, I've considered buying a Nagant and fabricating a silencer to play with with but the prospect of that much small welding and 7.62nagant ammo costing over a buck every time you fire (from my understanding the case distorts when firing so it can't be reloaded).

Good God, boy. Show me where I said revolvers cannot be silenced. I went to the LAPD Expo for years and never did anyone offer up a silenced revolver. There is no point to them. Furthermore, when one says 'revolvers', 1895 Nagants are not the first things that come to mind.

The gas seal system only works correctly with original 7.65 Nagant ammunition which is not subsonic, so you are talking nonsense.
You can use .32 ammo or reload 32-30 brass to subsonic loads, but the gas system doesn't seal with either of those loads. So basically, you are an idiot trying to argue a point that makes no sense about a gun you don't have.

[Atheist_Sinner]

Originally Posted by Pastor Al E Pistle

Good God, boy. Show me where I said revolvers cannot be silenced. I went to the LAPD Expo for years and never did anyone offer up a silenced revolver. There is no point to them. Furthermore, when one says 'revolvers', 1895 Nagants are not the first things that come to mind.

The gas seal system only works correctly with original 7.65 Nagant ammunition which is not subsonic, so you are talking nonsense.
You can use .32 ammo or reload 32-30 brass to subsonic loads, but the gas system doesn't seal with either of those loads. So basically, you are an idiot trying to argue a point that makes no sense about a gun you don't have.

You can purchase brass for this gun to handload it should you chose
to do so and a bit less powder than the commercial target rounds will give you a subsonic round or quite a bit more should give you something close to the old military load. http://www.starlinebrass.com/ Apparently these cases also tend to deform less than the standard size so they might be worth reloading after all if Starline would finish their redesign and restart manufacturing.

Even if you don't buy new brass, the commercial rounds are sometimes reloadable, they just have a tendency to deform and then split when you reshape them.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Sinner

You can purchase brass for this gun to handload it should you chose
to do so and a bit less powder than the commercial target rounds will give you a subsonic round or quite a bit more should give you something close to the old military load. http://www.starlinebrass.com/ Apparently these cases also tend to deform less than the standard size so they might be worth reloading after all if Starline would finish their redesign and restart manufacturing.

Even if you don't buy new brass, the commercial rounds are sometimes reloadable, they just have a tendency to deform and then split when you reshape them.

And what? You are still talking about sticking a silencer on a reloaded round for an 1895 revolver worth $79 FOR A REASON, the mere possession of which is a guarantee of jail time.

What are you going to do...hand load old 7. 65 Berdan primed Nagant cases so you can plink subsonic rounds through a silenced Nagant revolver simply to demonstrate what an idiot you are? .45 automatic rounds are already subsonic. Why not get a tomahawk and throw it or become Binky The Ninja? Why not get a hobby you can discuss intelligently?

[Atheist_Sinner]

Originally Posted by Pastor Al E Pistle

And what? You are still talking about sticking a silencer on a reloaded round for an 1895 revolver worth $79 FOR A REASON, the mere possession of which is a guarantee of jail time.

What are you going to do...hand load old 7. 65 Berdan primed Nagant cases so you can plink subsonic rounds through a silenced Nagant revolver simply to demonstrate what an idiot you are? .45 automatic rounds are already subsonic. Why not get a tomahawk and throw it or become Binky The Ninja? Why not get a hobby you can discuss intelligently?

The .45 auto still has the action noise every time it fires. Anyway, silencing a semi-auto is too easy, or at least too common. There is nothing like the "what the piffle is that?" effect you'd get at a gun range from a silenced revolver that is actually silent. I'd be reloading the thing anyway since bullets are so ridiculously expensive in the proper caliber.

Its perfectly legal for me to manufacture or purchase and use a suppressor in my state as long as I fill out the appropriate forms, wait for the background check, and pay the requisite ATF tax to the Federal Government. Interestingly enough, its also legal for me to carry it attached to a concealed pistol her, assuming I also follow the similar procedure to get a concealed-carry permit. You really should realize by now the internet is a big place where people from lots of different physical places can show up so the may not always have the same gun-control laws as your area.

It's a small project intended simply to be something to spend time on as proof-of-concept. Its valuable in much the same way that the smaller SourceForge projects are. Most of the applications on SourceForge.net will never make it past marginal usefulness but its the process of creation and problem-solving that is important and the true achievement is knowledge gained from the challenges completed and issues raised and a feeling of satisfaction for having created something. The end product is more or less irrelevant.

I suppose you'd also question me if I were to weld some tubing together then attach a lawnmower engine, clutch, two wheels, a brake, and handlebars to it because I didn't really plan on using the resulting pocket bike to do any serious traveling.

[Nobar King]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Sinner

You really should realize by now the internet is a big place where people from lots of different physical places can show up so the may not always have the same gun-control laws as your area.

It's 2008, I think the wise pastor knows what the internets are.

I suppose you'd also question me if I were to weld some tubing together then attach a lawnmower engine, clutch, two wheels, a brake, and handlebars to it because I didn't really plan on using the resulting pocket bike to do any serious traveling.

Sounds like you're planning to go to burning man. Jesus can see you there, too.