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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-03-2014, 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pim Pendergast View Post
Atheists love to play on words. You’ve probably heard atheists say they lack belief in a god or gods. You see, if they say they believe God doesn’t exist, that puts the burden of proof on them. So they try to shift the burden of proof back onto us by using a subtle play on words. They say they simply don’t believe God exists. But we know from the Bible that this is just not true. Deep down, everyone believes the God of the Bible exists.

Rom 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I have often wondered how best to counter the argument that atheists simply lack faith. And then I found this post on Ray Comfort’s Facebook page.


So according to Ray, an atheist believes he has no belief in God. It is a faith-based position. Deep down, the atheist believes God exists, but he believes he doesn’t believe He does.

So next time you hear an atheist say he lacks belief in God, challenge him to support his claim that he believes he doesn’t believe in God.

Christians can play at word games too. This little semantic trick shifts the burden of proof back onto the atheist. Atheism does require faith. Atheists must justify their beliefs.
Interesting theory.
I do have one thing to say about this:
Lacking belief in god requires absolutely nothing. Or rather, in order to lack a belief in god, you require ... a lack of belief.

Though if I must provide proof that god does not exist, I'd go with the simplest thing.

Where is he? If god exists, why hasn't he contacted/talked to us? I mean, if god knows how we think and just how easy it is for us to interpret pretty much anything, surely, he would pick a more efficient way of contacting/talking to us than ancient texts that have been interpreted, tweaked and otherwise influenced by humans numerous times.
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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 12:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Interesting theory.
I do have one thing to say about this:
Lacking belief in god requires absolutely nothing. Or rather, in order to lack a belief in god, you require ... a lack of belief.
It's a belief, too. Atheism is just another false religion - you simply believe in 0 number of gods, but it still is a belief.

Quote:
Though if I must provide proof that god does not exist, I'd go with the simplest thing.

Where is he? If god exists, why hasn't he contacted/talked to us?
Um, hello, does the Holy Bible ring a bell?

Quote:
I mean, if god knows how we think and just how easy it is for us to interpret pretty much anything, surely, he would pick a more efficient way of contacting/talking to us than ancient texts that have been interpreted, tweaked and otherwise influenced by humans numerous times.
That's why He says we are not supposed to interpret, just read as is (2 Peter 1:20).
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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 02:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Interesting theory.
I do have one thing to say about this:
Lacking belief in god requires absolutely nothing. Or rather, in order to lack a belief in god, you require ... a lack of belief.
But Romans 1:20 says that deep down, you do believe in God. You only believe you lack belief. So your position does require faith.

Quote:
Where is he?
Everywhere (Ps 139:7-12), but He's invisible.

Quote:
If god exists, why hasn't he contacted/talked to us?
He has. Ever heard of the Bible (2 Tim 3:16)?

Quote:
I mean, if god knows how we think and just how easy it is for us to interpret pretty much anything, surely, he would pick a more efficient way of contacting/talking to us than ancient texts that have been interpreted, tweaked and otherwise influenced by humans numerous times.
He has miraculously protected and preserved the texts.

Ps 12:6-7 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

How much more efficient could He possibly be?


Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 11:00 AM

The bible was written by man, as man evolved this book has changed, i believe chapters omitted...

This is not the word of god but ordinary man's attempt to control the masses.

I am an atheist and I have faith. Faith in people and trust them as they trust me. no god required.

Every scientist has faith, faith that the experiment will work so that they have hard proof and facts.

Religion to this day is served by faith not proof. religion deems the mind to be come psychologically unstable. take religion out of the equation and your mind has to rationalise psychologically and will be stable.

here is a thought, if there was a woman in the street talking to an invisible entity she would be put in a mental institution, how is this any different from speaking to god or jesus?
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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Atheist1320 View Post
The bible was written by man blah blah blah
Think of the people who wrote the Bible as stenographers with a direct line to God.

Did they write the Bible? Yes, technically (the best kind) they did. Who was the inspiration for all of that writing?

(2 Timothy 3:16-17) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

JESUS WINS AGAIN!!!



YiC,

Zech


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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist1320 View Post
The bible was written by man, as man evolved this book has changed, i believe chapters omitted...

This is not the word of god but ordinary man's attempt to control the masses.

I am an atheist and I have faith. Faith in people and trust them as they trust me. no god required.

Every scientist has faith, faith that the experiment will work so that they have hard proof and facts.

Religion to this day is served by faith not proof. religion deems the mind to be come psychologically unstable. take religion out of the equation and your mind has to rationalise psychologically and will be stable.

here is a thought, if there was a woman in the street talking to an invisible entity she would be put in a mental institution, how is this any different from speaking to god or jesus?
Well that does not make sense.

You can't prove anything with the scientific method. You can have a high degree of confidence (normally .05) but there are always error bars (that's what the power calculation is for).

And you say researchers have faith their experiement will be proved right? What university did you go to?

How would that stance allow for H0? You must be prepared to accept the null hypothesis for the hypothesis to be open to falsifiablity.

Do you know how science works? I'm two years into my psych degree and I seem to know more than you about the philosophy of science.



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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist1320 View Post
here is a thought, if there was a woman in the street talking to an invisible entity she would be put in a mental institution, how is this any different from speaking to god or jesus?
Because God is REALLY there! You don't get locked up for talking to people who exist.


Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 03:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Though if I must provide proof that god does not exist, I'd go with the simplest thing.
Let me tell you about Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is generally the correct one. When you look around in wonder at this irreducibly complex Creation, what's the point in trying to convolute it all with book upon book of secular answers which are prone to change every few years, when all you need is one Book (the King James Bible) that hasn't changed since the latter part of the Roman Empire? What's the point in trying to figure everything out for oneself when the LORD has already provided the details you need to understand and appreciate His Creation?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart;
and lean not unto thine own understanding.


You're making things way more complicated and stand in egregious violation of Occam's Razor. What simpler explanation is there aside from "God did it"?

Let that sink in, and when you are ready to embrace Jesus, we will be here to help.


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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 04:45 PM

Time for a couple of replies.
Quote:
It's a belief, too. Atheism is just another false religion - you simply believe in 0 number of gods, but it still is a belief.
Atheism is a religion.... Riiiiight.
Atheism is a complete and total lack of any kind of religious belief.

Or, to use different words:
Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position.

Quote:
Um, hello, does the Holy Bible ring a bell?
Which one of the 40 versions?
The same bible that had been influenced by numerous people for their own ends?
I'm afraid I'll need something more ... solid.

Quote:
That's why He says we are not supposed to interpret, just read as is (2 Peter 1:20).
As mentioned above, the bible has been interpreted and influenced several times for various purposes. Yet every single one of them seemed to be claiming that it is the one true version and so on.
Quote:
But Romans 1:20 says that deep down, you do believe in God. You only believe you lack belief. So your position does require faith.
And? The author of that one-liner has never met me and doesn't know me, so he has absolutely no idea how my mind works and what I believe in. Furthermore, I don't believe I lack belief. I know that I don't have any religious belief in me. That's a fact.

Everywhere (Ps 139:7-12), but He's invisible.

If he's invisible, what's preventing him from speaking to us in a clear, understandable voice?

Quote:
He has miraculously protected and preserved the texts.

Ps 12:6-7 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

How much more efficient could He possibly be?
Considering that people are leaving the church and religion is having less and less influence of peoples' lives, I'd say that his miraculous texts aren't capable of delivering his message.

Maybe it's time to switch over to a more effective approach? I mean, imagine, if he decided to just show himself to people. Drop the invisibility cloak or whatever and make himself visible for all. I think a lot of people would be convinced that, yes, god exists and he is real.

Quote:
Let me tell you about Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is generally the correct one. When you look around in wonder at this irreducibly complex Creation, what's the point in trying to convolute it all with book upon book of secular answers which are prone to change every few years, when all you need is one Book (the King James Bible) that hasn't changed since the latter part of the Roman Empire? What's the point in trying to figure everything out for oneself when the LORD has already provided the details you need to understand and appreciate His Creation?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart;
and lean not unto thine own understanding.


You're making things way more complicated and stand in egregious violation of Occam's Razor. What simpler explanation is there aside from "God did it"?

Let that sink in, and when you are ready to embrace Jesus, we will be here to help.
Yes! Let's embrace unquestioning obedience and stagnation. Let's follow a book that's been written in the 17th century and hasn't changed a bit (assuming we ignore the other versions).

Let's abandon scientific method, which has helped us to change the "wonders or irreducibly complex creation" to simple and clear concepts a child can understand.

Yes, science does change over time and what was true yesterday is wrong tomorrow. It's called, learning. Progress. When it comes to science, things are rather simple and can be split into 2 groups.

1. There is one explanation (truth) to a specific concept. For example, how lightning works. It is universally accepted because there is no better answer. The moment someone finds a way to disprove the existing "truth" and proves that the new way is the right one, it's the new explanation that becomes the norm.

2. One concept can have more than one scientific explanation. That's because no one has solid proof that one explanation is the correct one, while others are wrong. At least, for now. Wait a few years, and some scientist will come up with an answer.

The "God did it" explanation is the lazy answer. It's the explanation for people who have no idea what they're talking about and can't be bothered to learn.

Take lightning for example. A long time ago people thought that the lightning was a sign that the gods were angry. Now we know that the lightning is nothing more than a giant electrical discharge.

"God did it" works only as long as we do not understand what's going on. The moment we start figuring out the "why" and "how", all "magic/religion" goes out the window and we are presented with the truth.

If people had been content with the "god did it" explanation, we'd still be living in the Dark Ages.
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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 07:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
The "God did it" explanation is the lazy answer. It's the explanation for people who have no idea what they're talking about and can't be bothered to learn.
Not true, friend! It is the answer that requires the most strength, the most steadfast and unwavering dedication to the Truth! I know it's easy for you materialists to think everything can be explained by observing a phenomena, record data, analyze that data, conduct experiments, reduce as many variables as possible in order to isolate minute details, analyze that data more, review it with a community of peers also highly educated and knowledgeable about these details, and then modify a hypothesis as new information is uncovered, but that, my friend, is the truly lazy way.

Oh no, it takes much more courage to stand fast against what appears to our flesh to be objective information, to reject the lies of Satan, and instead maintain a fierce devotion to the faith of Christ. Don't assume just because you don't have the courage to believe in your heart a fantastic story of paradise, talking serpents, magical fruits, dancing skeletons, virgin births, life reboots, and a space army with Jesus leading the way, ready to come crashing back down through the clouds any minute now, that others are too lazy to believe it against all odds.



Hello, my name is Mary. I hope to fellowship with you! That is, unless you don't listen to church authority (Deuteronomy 17:12); are a witch (Exodus 22:17); are a homosexual (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:24-32); or fortuneteller (Leviticus 20:27) or a snotty kid who hits their dad (Exodus 21:15); or curses their parents (Proverbs 20:20; Leviticus 20:9); an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10); a non-Christian (Exodus 22:19; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Deuteronomy 17:2-5;Romans 1:24-32); an atheist (2 Chronicles 15:12-13); or false prophet (Zechariah 13:3); from the town of one who worships another, false god (Deuteronomy 13:13-19); were a non-virgin bride (Deuteronomy 22:20-21); or blasphemer (Leviticus 24:10-16), as God calls for your execution and will no doubt send you to Hell, and I have no interest developing a friendship with the Spiritually Walking Dead.

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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-04-2014, 07:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda View Post
Not true, friend! It is the answer that requires the most strength, the most steadfast and unwavering dedication to the Truth! I know it's easy for you materialists to think everything can be explained by observing a phenomena, record data, analyze that data, conduct experiments, reduce as many variables as possible in order to isolate minute details, analyze that data more, review it with a community of peers also highly educated and knowledgeable about these details, and then modify a hypothesis as new information is uncovered, but that, my friend, is the truly lazy way.

Oh no, it takes much more courage to stand fast against what appears to our flesh to be objective information, to reject the lies of Satan, and instead maintain a fierce devotion to the faith of Christ. Don't assume just because you don't have the courage to believe in your heart a fantastic story of paradise, talking serpents, magical fruits, dancing skeletons, virgin births, life reboots, and a space army with Jesus leading the way, ready to come crashing back down through the clouds any minute now, that others are too lazy to believe it against all odds.

I did believe all that when I was a kid. As for the cloud army, considering that clouds are nothing more than water droplets floating in the air, and can't hold anything else beyond themselves, and army that will "crashing down through the clouds" is nothing to worry about.
In fact, the "crashing down" part will be quite literal I think.

As for the first part. Maybe. Maybe not.
Though the science approach is the one that requires most patience, considering how long it is. Last time I checked, patience was a virtue.
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see_the_light see_the_light is offline
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Default Re: Attention atheists: Lacking belief requires faith - 02-05-2014, 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Though the science approach is the one that requires most patience, considering how long it is. Last time I checked, patience was a virtue.
Are you trying to hijack Romans 8:25 ?

But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.



May I remind you that you can NOT cherry pick the KJV. It's all of it or not enough.

So in the same spirit (GOD'S). James 5:8

Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

PRAISE THE LORD!
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