[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

You know, I sure as heck hope something happens over in Israel or Iran or one of them Mohammedist countries real soon, because I'm turning 69 this year and my doctor just told me I need to cut down on fat intake, lower my cholesterol and blood pressure, and my diabeetus has skyrocketed out of control. I remember the good life when I was writing checks to Yamaha for my brand new ATCs way back in '77, but nowadays I'm writing checks (for the same amount) to Liberty Medical Supply for my diabeetus testing supplies.

Brother Eliot is right in pointing out that God loves the world so much, he is willing to sacrifice some of us, so that the rest of us can have aeternal life with Jesus Christ. Radical atheists like to cry out: "If there is a God, why did he let six million Jews die?" A good Christian apologist will reply: "But that shows there is a God! He let six million unsaved Jews die instead of six million Bible-believing Baptists!" Truly these people lived in mockery of God for over 4000 years, and when God gave them His Son, they rejected Him and crucified Him. It was high time that God made an example of them to show what happens when you reject Christ as your Savior. To me, the fact that the Holocaust did happen is one of the strongest theistic arguments anyone can make.

[eliot mayfield]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

Is there something in the water there? Has Obama drugged you all? It hurts me to see you turn away from God and towards the democratic party and feel soft to the enemies of the USA.

[eliot mayfield]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

You know, I sure as heck hope something happens over in Israel or Iran or one of them Mohammedist countries real soon, because I'm turning 69 this year and my doctor just told me I need to cut down on fat intake, lower my cholesterol and blood pressure, and my diabeetus has skyrocketed out of control. I remember the good life when I was writing checks to Yamaha for my brand new ATCs way back in '77, but nowadays I'm writing checks (for the same amount) to Liberty Medical Supply for my diabeetus testing supplies.

Brother Eliot is right in pointing out that God loves the world so much, he is willing to sacrifice some of us, so that the rest of us can have aeternal life with Jesus Christ. Radical atheists like to cry out: "If there is a God, why did he let six million Jews die?" A good Christian apologist will reply: "But that shows there is a God! He let six million unsaved Jews die instead of six million Bible-believing Baptists!" Truly these people lived in mockery of God for over 4000 years, and when God gave them His Son, they rejected Him and crucified Him. It was high time that God made an example of them to show what happens when you reject Christ as your Savior. To me, the fact that the Holocaust did happen is one of the strongest theistic arguments anyone can make.

I've been googling for Baptists killed in the holocaust and can't find even one. Plenty of jews, Jehovahs, homosexuals and other unsaved trash though. More proof God loves us and we are True Christians (tm).

[James Hutchins]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

I’m wondering if it is not possible for there to be accidents. One of the things I note is that every now and again, the keyboard will spell the word wrongly and I correct it. Now, I doubt that was part of God’s Plan – I mean, that milli-second? Did it change the world?

I am reminded of the transportation of the jews from France. Apparently, all in all there were over 200 of them invited to see new accommodation in Poland. On one occasion, the train broke down somewhere near the French border; the jews got out to have a walk round and unfortunately the Germans took advantage of the delay for rifle practice. IIRC, 3 people were quite badly winged.

These things happen, none of us are perfect. Yes, God has a plan, which will go forward and culminate in Armageddon but, IMHO, it’s a broad-brush on the canvas of life.

Now see, that is how I understand stuff happens. I think too many people are into conspiracy theories. A rule I live by is "The simplest explanation is usually the right one". And the would be "God made it so". You cannot get much simpler than that.
I mean, you would think, after the first batch of joo brownies was made, the rest would of not followed suit. They had no choice as it was Gods will.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

That has been my experience Pastor. I had a joo accountant once. I always had to pay more taxes and pay him to tell me that. Ever since I canceled fired upon him, I never owed any extra money. Then that time I go sued (still have a gag order) and the joo lawyer lied and I had to pay to repaint the synagogue. All I ever heard was 'poor me'. What a bunch of whiners. So because they cheat and lie, then when they get caught or have an accident they expect up to feel sorry for them.

But see, Brother James, this is an excellent example of why the Holocaust happened. It makes a lot of sense for people to be so ticked off by Jewish greed, lies, deceit, manipulation, and trickery that I can perfectly well see normal everyday people rallying together and stuffing all these Jews into concentration camps. Now, I'm no Nazi apologist, let me make that clear, but Adolph Hitler unwittingly served the Lord by following His Plan. And, as a rejoinder, I can honestly sympathasize with Hitler on why he would want to corral them up like the rats they are.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

Is there something in the water there? Has Obama drugged you all? It hurts me to see you turn away from God and towards the democratic party and feel soft to the enemies of the USA.

Perhaps the Rev. Brother Osborne is perhaps counting the total deaths between 1941 and 1945 from all causes and universally. There was a lot of bombing you know.

[James Hutchins]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

But see, Brother James, this is an excellent example of why the Holocaust happened. It makes a lot of sense for people to be so ticked off by Jewish greed, lies, deceit, manipulation, and trickery that I can perfectly well see normal everyday people rallying together and stuffing all these Jews into concentration camps. Now, I'm no Nazi apologist, let me make that clear, but Adolph Hitler unwittingly served the Lord by following His Plan. And, as a rejoinder, I can honestly sympathasize with Hitler on why he would want to corral them up like the rats they are.

That makes perfect sense, thanks Reverend. So why is the Holocaust spoken about like it was a bad thing, if it really happened? You'd figure instead, we'd have a holiday like Thanksgiving and eat bacon.

[eliot mayfield]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

Now see, that is how I understand stuff happens. I think too many people are into conspiracy theories. A rule I live by is "The simplest explanation is usually the right one". And the would be "God made it so". You cannot get much simpler than that.
I mean, you would think, after the first batch of joo brownies was made, the rest would of not followed suit. They had no choice as it was Gods will.

Exactly. Why try to deny it? God made it happen out of his love for all of us.
It's like 9/11, lot's of fools on the nets are trying to say George Bush blew up the World Trade centers!
Yet, we all saw them planes fly smack into them! It's the same with the Holocaust. People want to change history to suit their needs. God is good and he did what he did for good reasons.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

But see, Brother James, this is an excellent example of why the Holocaust happened. It makes a lot of sense for people to be so ticked off by Jewish greed, lies, deceit, manipulation, and trickery that I can perfectly well see normal everyday people rallying together and stuffing all these Jews into concentration camps. Now, I'm no Nazi apologist, let me make that clear, but Adolph Hitler unwittingly served the Lord by following His Plan. And, as a rejoinder, I can honestly sympathasize with Hitler on why he would want to corral them up like the rats they are.

I hate that Hitler guy with all my True Christian™ heart, but not because he may (or may not have) killed a few joos. I hate Hitler because he was a papist ring-kisser (not a Christian) and he attacked God's favorite country (America!).

What you say is very wise Rev. Jim. God uses us as He sees fit. I've known of God to use queers, mudslimes and all manner of scum to further His Divine Plan. He may very well have used Hitler to thin out the overbreeding of the joos, gypsies and queers. You just never know with God...

[Tertius The Scribe]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

I've been googling for Baptists killed in the holocaust and can't find even one. Plenty of jews, Jehovahs, homosexuals and other unsaved trash though. More proof God loves us and we are True Christians ™.

Amen!

I think a lot of these deaths were caused because God doesn't like Youdoucheish or whatever; all them Kraut Joos speak it though!

Just because God punishes the Joos for worshipping that hippie Moses doesn't mean they have a right to be racist against us white people!

But apparently the Joos still don't get the simple fact that unless you turn, you burn! (And most Joos in the Holocaust did that twice! )

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

Well, I googled "Baptist died holocaust" and found nary a single example of one of us killed. Truly something as widespread and consuming as the Holocaust not getting just ONE Baptist shows there is a divine providence which is protecting us.

Here is a link to a site which discusses this same issue.

Q. I had a guest this weekend that I asked this question to and he gave me an answer that really made my heart spin.
The question was, "The Jews that died in the holocaust, did they or are they going to Heaven?" His response was "No, they are all in hell because they were not saved in the glory of Jesus."

Well this gentleman was a Jew till he was brought to Christ and is now a Baptist minister in the ministry of converting Jews to Jesus.

I ask you the same question.

What of the many who died in the Holocaust, will they ever see the love of the Father?
A. Let me first begin by saying this is a complicated question that cannot be so easily answered.
He has a severe misunderstanding of the Lord and His ways and seems rather judgmental. But, let’s take a few things first. You say this gentleman was a Jew, but that is incorrect. He still is a Jew.
Israel as a nation (corporately) rejected the Messiah because they did not recognize Him.
By the first century they accepted rabbinical interpretations about the Messiah over what the Scriptures had said.
So, Yeshua comes along and He didn’t look like or act like what the Rabbis had said He would look and act like.
John 5.39-47 says that if they reject Moses (Scriptures), they will reject Him because he spoke of the Messiah. Now, the answer to any question is always in the question. So, I ask this, what of the many Gentiles that died in the Holocaust, did they or are they going to Heaven?
Gentiles who die in unbelief have the same fate as Jews because you must be born from above (John 3) to enter into salvation, to the Jew first (especially, because they were the first to know, and to whom much is given, much is required), then the Gentile.
I can tell you right now, if your friend is trying to win Jews to Jesus with his judgmental attitude he won’t be very successful.
He might convert a few to a denomination or a movement, but is that what the Lord means by "born again?" I think not. There is more to this than his generalized answer. So, lets get to the heart of the matter.
Israel had a responsibility, a covenantal calling, to follow the Lord and be a witness and a light of understanding to the Gentiles. When they obeyed, they were blessed, when they didn’t God got their attention. That calling has not been revoked and will be fulfilled in the Tribulation period.
That’s why the two witnesses will be Jewish, that’s why the 144,000 will be Jewish. The Holocaust and all the other problems Israel has encountered over the centuries is a warning to repent, but not just for Israel.
Your friend needs to remember things happen to the Jew first (especially, see above) then the Gentiles as the Apostle Paul points out, because they were the first to know the truth and had the Scriptures (Rom 3.1-2.) Let’s go to Luke 13.1-5 and I’m going to illustrate something.
Here, Yeshua gives a warning to repent and will quickly dispel their notion of calamity, a notion your friend and many others seem to share. Yeshua brings up a historical tragedy about some Galileans who were killed while offering sacrifices in the Temple by Pilate and asks if those Galileans were greater sinners because they were killed than other Galileans who weren’t.
Yeshua says "No" and then says it was a warning that if they did not repent they would likewise perish. Well, they did not repent and 40 years later millions were killed when Rome came and destroyed the Temple.
Then He gives another example of where a tower fell and killed 18 people and asks the same thing, were they greater sinners because they died? He again says "No" and warns them to repent or they would likewise perish.
Well, they did not listen and 40 years later not only one tower fell, but many towers fell in the city when Rome destroyed it. The bottom line is, tragedies happen and rather than be judgmental towards the victims we should be examining ourselves and take it as a warning that we need to be right with the Lord and repent of our sins or something worse will happen.
Like in the first century, not just a few people died but millions died because they did not recognize what the Lord was doing and saying in these events. What your friend doesn’t realize is that more Gentiles died in the Holocaust and World War II than Jews.
The word "holocaust" comes from the Greek "holos" which means "burned" and "kaustos" which means "an offering to a god." The Hebrew words for "burn’t offering" is "Korban Olah" and in Greek translations of the Bible Holocaust is used for korban olah.
In a way, those that died were wholly consumed by the fire of God’s judgment and according to God’s purposes as warning to us ,on whom the end of the age has come.
In conclusion, many, not all, Jews perished in unbelief in the holocaust, and they were forever lost, NOT because they were Jews but because they did not believe in the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
But many Jews perished in the United States at the same time and were lost for the same reason. It’s not where or how you perish that determines whether you are lost or not, but it is the condition of your soul with the Lord that determines that.
God chooses how your death may happen, but it is not necessarily an indication of our spiritual condition. It’s like when you get married. It’s not how you get to the wedding that determines whether you are married or not, it’s your heart and who’s waiting for you when you get there that determines it.
The same can be said for many Gentiles who died. Your friend said "they (the Jews) are all in hell" which I take issue with also, he didn’t know every person who did there was an unbeliever.
He should read some books about many Jewish believers who got caught up in it, as well as Gentiles. Like in the first century, Yeshua warned Jerusalem that the city of Jerusalem would be surrounded by Rome and when they saw that, they were to flee the city.
Some did, but many didn’t and got caught inside the walls.Well, in the 1930’s many saw Germany "surrounding" them and fled to the United States and survived, but millions didn’t or couldn’t and also got caught within the walls.
The Holocaust is awarning for the whole world to repent and come to the God of Israel through his Messiah because a greater holocaust is coming, and the false messiah will make Hitler look like a choir boy. This holocaust will not be centered in Europe, but be worldwide.
So I leave your friend with the same admonition. Do you suppose that those that died in the Holocaust were greater sinners than others because they suffered this fate? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will likewise perish. I hope this helps.
Ask your friend to contact me if he wants to talk about this further.

[James Hutchins]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

Rev., nary a single Baptist, not even a one was killed by accident. Very interesting.

Heck, we have several turkey shoots around here every year. At least one person is dropped, accidents do happen. No way are there even one million people attending in total. And again, it is never a Baptist. So that leads me to think that all the joos that were cooked up were just God doing His cleaning. I got to say, it really does make a lot of sense. And because God is behind it, it must be good.

[JennyD]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

Brother Eliot is right in pointing out that God loves the world so much, he is willing to sacrifice some of us, so that the rest of us can have aeternal life with Jesus Christ. Radical atheists like to cry out: "If there is a God, why did he let six million Jews die?" A good Christian apologist will reply: "But that shows there is a God! He let six million unsaved Jews die instead of six million Bible-believing Baptists!"

I couldn't agree more, Rev. Osborne!

And now Obama is comparing the Holocaust to Israel's killing of a couple hundred Palestinian Islamofascists . . .

In his speech, President Obama addressed the issue of the Holocaust head-on, saying "Six million Jews were killed — more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today."

But he quickly changed the subject, comparing Hitler’s genocide of the Jews to the Palestinian struggle.

"On the other hand," Obama said, as he transitioned from the Holocaust to the modern Middle East, "it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people — Muslims and Christians — have suffered in pursuit of a homeland."

That is because, "The problem really is not what Israel does, it’s that Israel is," Malcolm Hoenlein (executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations) says. "And they’re not ready to accept the existence of the Jewish theocracy."

In discussing the Palestinian refugee problem, Obama failed to mention the other refugee problem involving nearly a million Jews, Hoenlein says. At the time of the creation of the modern state of Israel in 1948, Jews populated all of the major Arab cities from Baghdad in the East to Casablanca in the West, much as Muslims have spread throughout Europe today.

Hoenlein notes that after modern Israel saw its rebirth, Jews "were driven out of Arab countries penniless, and some of their families had lived there for a thousand years, and yet there was no reference to them." He adds, "This is not a question of tit for tat. It’s a question of the realities that are communicated to a vast audience in the Arab Muslim world."

...

Asked if he sees Obama’s perceived tilt toward the Palestinians as reflecting some of the views of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jr., Obama’s former pastor who accused Israel of "ethnic cleansing" and "terrorism," Hoenlein says American Jews are concerned about Obama’s policies today.

"That issue has been discussed and debated, and I don’t know that it’s a relevant concern for right now," he says. "I do feel strongly about what the [current] policy will be."

Hoenlein says flatly, "People [Jews] are genuinely very concerned...about President Obama."

[Wash O'Hanley]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

It saddens me to see two brothers fall for the liberal conspiracy like you two have. You should be ashamed of yourselves...

Look, all I'm saying is that maybe those concentration camps weren't that bad. Every photo I've ever seen of Holocaust Jews showed a bunch of super-skinny people standing around digging holes and building things. In our shallow and image-conscious society with a struggling economy would this be such a bad thing? You lose 80 or 90 pounds in 3 months and fall to a healthy 75-pound-weight while learning practical architectural skills at the same time. The Holocaust was basically a rigorous weight-loss boot camp program and an ITT Tech education at the same time.

Auschwitz? More like Club Med.

[WilliamJenningsBryan]

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan

I've been wondering what "Arbeit macht frei" meant and your suggestion that there were Nazi fat farms certainly makes sense. After all, German food can be quite fattening – particularly their potato salad that is made with bacon. "Arbeit macht frei" probably means they did not have to listen to Richard Simmons.