[John Creeser]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard and/or a set of practices that let you live a harmonious life.

Correct, but unfortunately most people don't abide by God's laws (and you apparently haven't read the Bible). Nothing we say on this forum (and the views held by all True Christians™) is not in adherence of the Bible.

God tells us to try and save all of the lost souls out there, like yourself;

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

II Timothy 4:2-5
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

However, if we cannot, then you have no place here.

Leviticus 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

A large proportion of the users of this forum seem to be deeply troubled and intolerant people.

Duh! Being intolerant is exactly what God demands from us. He commands us to stay away as far as possible from unbelievers. If we would touch an unbeliever we will burn in Hell for that.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

[Alvin Moss]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

Wow. I happened to find this forum today by chance and I must say that I'm absolutely astonished.

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard and/or a set of practices that let you live a harmonious life. A large (if not most - I haven't seen a single exception so far) proportion of the users of this forum seem to be deeply troubled and intolerant people. I feel very sorry for you and wonder what kind of horrible conditions you must've endured in your life to become like this.

In any case, I wish you all the best, even if you yourselves don't seem to have good wishes to other people.

You seem to have a fuzzy moral compass, swami. We are friendly, open and forgiving here. We are only intolerant of sin and our reaction is rebuke and a loving invitation to come to Jesus or go to Hell. That's a pretty reasonable attitude to have toward people who have only Hell to look forward to, I would say.

How about you? Got Jesus?

[A Follower]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard and/or a set of practices that let you live a harmonious life.

You are absolutely right, that is exactly what religion is about (well, Christian religion at least, muslimism is more about suicide bombing and catholicism promotes child rape and other perversions like worship of Mary).

We absolutely have to live a harmonious life. God tells us so in the Bible:

Colossians 3:12-14
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

We have to forbear one another, we have to forgive one another, we have to be meek and humble to one another. But wait, who is "one another"? That is us, the elect of God. We have to be nice to our fellow Christians who follow the entire Bible and all God's Wisdom. That's the moral standard we are tasked to uphold. It's a difficult one, but we will do it!

Heathens we have to avoid, or we are just as bad as them, John wrote:

2 John 1: 9-11
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[JustPassingBy]

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?
Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times? And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot. I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose). The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way? And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition? Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)? What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

I understand that I off-loaded quite a few questions here. I would think of a hundred more.
I would really appreciate if some of you could find the time to answer any of them. And please, think of me as a lost soul as opposed to a heathen or something like that - I'm simply curious and am not looking for conflict.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?
Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times? And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot. I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose). The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way? And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition? Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)? What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

I understand that I off-loaded quite a few questions here. I would think of a hundred more.
I would really appreciate if some of you could find the time to answer any of them. And please, think of me as a lost soul as opposed to a heathen or something like that - I'm simply curious and am not looking for conflict.

If the KJV(1611) was not THE definitive Bible don't you think that Jesus would have corrected it?

Or are you saying that the One who made all of creation cannot use spiritual Tippex®?

YIC

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?

Depends. If the translator is inspired by God (like it is the case with the KJV Bible), then the transpation is Perfect®.

Also - if you think that all translations are imperfect, why do people even bother translating books? If the only language and culture a person can understand is the one we were born into, why do some people bother learning foreign languages and traveling abroad?

Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

True Christians™ are perfect. (See the link in my signature?)

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times?

Are you implying that God given morality is somehow relative?

And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

Either you take the whole Scripture literally, or you burn in Hell forever. Period.

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot.

We don't extrapolate. We take the Bible as is.

I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose).

Show us an instance when you think we are cherry picking, and we'll prove you wrong.

The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way?

We don't.

And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition?

No. We just read the Bible. it's all there.

Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)?

John 20:29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

Because we have Jesus' own words to prove that we are on the right path.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?
Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times? And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot. I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose). The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way? And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition? Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)? What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

I understand that I off-loaded quite a few questions here. I would think of a hundred more.
I would really appreciate if some of you could find the time to answer any of them. And please, think of me as a lost soul as opposed to a heathen or something like that - I'm simply curious and am not looking for conflict.

Sorry friend, no time to read the whole post. Looks like a lot of rambling. You lost my interest when you said you were familiar with but did not read the Bible. Kind of makes it hard to praise His Perfection when you have nary a clue what you are going on about.
So I'll help you out.
God made everything
Therefore, He understands everything
He has no reason not to be Honest with us.
Therefore, the Bible is factual.

Have a nice day!

[JustPassingBy]

Originally Posted by Basilissa

Also - if you think that all translations are imperfect, why do people even bother translating books? If the only language and culture a person can understand is the one we were born into, why do some people bother learning foreign languages and traveling abroad?

Interesting question. If I'm reading poetry, or even a certain kind of 'classical' literature, I always prefer the original language. Otherwise, if I'm reading something fun just for recreation, it doesn't really matter.

Learning another language is actually an excellent way to get insight into another culture! Did you know that the way that people think (i.e. in what patterns, for example, when doing math) is very dependent on what language they think in? Also you can infer a lot of other things from a cultures' language. For example, if they have multiple tenses how to express verbs in past/present/future, or whether they distinguish nouns by sex. Fascinating stuff, but I digress...

Originally Posted by Basilissa

Are you implying that God given morality is somehow relative?

I'm not implying anything.
The same answer goes to your question as well, Laurence.

Anyway, thanks for answering, Laurence, Basilissa and James. Have a good day.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

Interesting question. If I'm reading poetry, or even a certain kind of 'classical' literature, I always prefer the original language. Otherwise, if I'm reading something fun just for recreation, it doesn't really matter.

Wow, you sound very smart. So, how many languages do you speak, in order to be able to read in original languages? I'm not very smart, so I'm fluent only in three languages; I can read in a few others, but I couldn't read very dry academic stuff, you know. (I can barely get through Bordieau in English, reading him in French would be unbearable, lol!).

Learning another language is actually an excellent way to get insight into another culture! Did you know that the way that people think (i.e. in what patterns, for example, when doing math) is very dependent on what language they think in? Also you can infer a lot of other things from a cultures' language. For example, if they have multiple tenses how to express verbs in past/present/future, or whether they distinguish nouns by sex. Fascinating stuff, but I digress...

I agree, it is fascinating. Did you know that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (meaning the stuff you just wrote) is called a hypothesis, even though it has been around for a century, because it has never been proven to be right? In other words, most anthropologists and linguists today agree that Sapir and Whorf exaggerated a lot the influence of language on human thought. Not to mention that their data was extremely limited. You should read their articles sometimes, like, critically. They wrote in relatively plain English, so these articles are easy to understand.

Anyway, thanks for answering, Laurence, Basilissa and James. Have a good day.

You welcome, and thank you, I most certainly will!

[NotUsingBrain]

Is this forum a joke? Firstly I thought that people are just making jokes about that the Earth is flat and that the Earth is only 6000 years old or that humans are some non-animal beings?


Also, I want to know if you hate Estonia or you hate people who don't follow the "true" religion?

[Alphonse Alban]

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

Earth is only 6000 years old

Not just the earth. Everything you see, earth, plants, animals, the whole universe was created in six days little over 6000 years ago.

GLORY!

[NotUsingBrain]

Originally Posted by Alphonse Alban

Not just the earth. Everything you see, earth, plants, animals, the whole universe was created in six days little over 6000 years ago.

These are not even facts.

We are living in 21st century. People who still believe that the Bible has 100% true facts must be brainwashed/badly educated/mentally ill. This madness must be ended.

Also, it is not nice to insult other people. You don't have to insult people who live in other countries and who follow other traditions.

[Attila's Wife]

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

People who still believe that the Bible has 100% true facts must be brainwashed/badly educated/mentally ill.

Followed by:

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

Also, it is not nice to insult other people.

[NotUsingBrain]

Originally Posted by Attila's Wife

Followed by:

I can't read your mind, could you explain me what did you mean by that?

[Zechariah Smyth]

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

I can't read your mind, could you explain me what did you mean by that?

She was pointing out the irony of you complaining about us insulting people, while you were in the process of insulting us.

Try and keep up, huh?



Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Attila's Wife]

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

I can't read your mind, could you explain me what did you mean by that?

I would put it like this:

1. You insult people who believe in the Bible, i.e. us, calling us "brainwashed/badly educated/mentally ill".

2. You then say it is not nice to insult other people.

This is illogical.

You would probably put it more offensively.

[NotUsingBrain]

You surely don't know the difference between true facts and imaginary stories.
There's a huge difference between a fact and an insult that is not true at all. And that bothers me, because why the hell (is this phrase allowed on this forum?) do you have to say lies about other nationalities .....

[JustPassingBy]

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

Is this forum a joke? ...

I initially considered this as well, but after some exploring around (which at first was amusing but made me increasingly sad), it seems that the users of this forum are indeed sincere.

It's their forum, though, and we can't do anything about it. If they choose to believe in the things they do and hold the morals they do, they're allowed to do so. We live in an era of information and technology, and everyone in the 1st and 2nd world countries have access to enough education to have a healthy world-view. Ignorance is no longer a curse, it's a choice. These people seemed to have made their choice.

A sense of community offers confidence and creates a positive-feedback mechanism that keeps communities like this one alive. As long as they're not hurting anyone (some people here do have quite violent thoughts against others, though), then they just exist and that's it. The rest of the world, including Estonia, goes on, fortunately.

[Alphonse Alban]

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

These are not even facts.

God is a fact. These are opinions.

Originally Posted by UseYourBrainPls

People who still believe that the Bible has 100% true facts must be brainwashed/badly educated/mentally ill.

You are not very smart, are you.