[quitestupid]

REMOVED IDIOTIC IMAGE

Please, I am genuinely curious here. If the Earth was flat, how would we have timezones?

[TheHappySinner]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

We know the Earth is flat because the Bible tells us so. ...

Ah, Osbourne and his total inability to grasp simple concepts, yahoo.

Well, the bible isn't a historical document or a reliable text book, so that I dismiss out of hand. If God himself told me the World was Flat, he'd have to prove it, as evidence supports otherwise.

#1. We are all moving at the exact same speed as the Earth is. If you jump up, since you & the Earth are moving the exact same speed, it appears as if you moved very little or at all. Don't try and say we would get killed by the 1000 KPH winds either, the wind is moving with us as well, so it has no APPARENT movement. Wind, forward movement etc are generally just minor additions to their already fantasic (But apparently slow) movement speed.

#2 Gravity is what gives us the conception of "Up" & "Down". In space there is no such serious force, so when those great pioneers go into space, they have to label or paint the floor & ceiling to know which is which.

If you lived in Australia, you wouldn't be "Below" the northern hemisphere, you would be "South" of it. To australians the USA is upside down, but only due to gravity do they think their "Up" is THE "Up", while we think vice versa. If you think Gravity is a lie, well, then you are a lost cause.

#3 This is actually pretty ignorant. If you are higher on a mountain the apparent horizon streches further than if you were on a plain @ sea level. The farthest you could ever possibly see would be about 100 KM on a very clear day on a very tall mountan due to atmosphereic refraction.

If you would ever care to, go to this kind of place called a "Salt Flat". Salt flats are basically blasted-away ruins of an old lake which have extrmely uniform surfaces & are basically perfectly flat plains. They're also in the Nevada desert, but who's counting?

On these magical plains (Which I have personally visited) set up a low-powered laser emitter (Xenon is preferable due to myraid factors) that has relatively high output, & using measuring tape, walk 10 KM (Short hike, bring water or use light vehicle instead) in a straight line. After communicating via radio that you are at the objective, ask your collegue to activate the laser & hit your deployed marker.

If you did this correctly, the laser should hit roughly a milimetre or so above the center of the target (I forget the exact measurement). The normal view (Espoused here) would say that it would hit the center, but it is just off in an actually visible way, which proves that the Earth is a sphere.

Or, for the lazy ones here, just look at your GPS, wich shows a triangulated signal from ORBITING satellites, a picture of the Earth from space. Watch a space shuttle take off into space & ORBIT the Earth. or just use common sense, gravity causes all objects greater than 50 KM or so to collapse into an Ellipsoid shape, which the Earth is.

Sigh, I'm going to be flamed for this.

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by TheHappySinner

If God himself told me the World was Flat, he'd have to prove it, as evidence supports otherwise.

Once I am in Heaven I will sure to tell Jesus about your demands. It will be a good laugh for the both of us.

#1. We are all moving at the exact same speed as the Earth is. If you jump up, since you & the Earth are moving the exact same speed, it appears as if you moved very little or at all.

Hm, so according to your theory if a parachutist jumps out of an airplane the plane and the parachutist will remain moving at the same speed?

#2 Gravity is what gives us the conception of "Up" & "Down". In space there is no such serious force, so when those great pioneers go into space, they have to label or paint the floor & ceiling to know which is which.

So in your theory up is exactly the same direction for those in the USA as for those in Australia? Does that mean those in Australia have to walk on their hands all the time?

#3 This is actually pretty ignorant. If you are higher on a mountain the apparent horizon streches further than if you were on a plain @ sea level.

Of course, this is caused by trees blocking your view. When you are higher the trees no longer block your view so you can see things at greater distances.

If you did this correctly, the laser should hit roughly a milimetre or so above the center of the target (I forget the exact measurement).

It's a desert. The phenomena you are describing is caused by hot air working as a lens. You can see the same effect on a highway when it is very hot.

Or, for the lazy ones here, just look at your GPS, wich shows a triangulated signal from ORBITING satellites, a picture of the Earth from space.

GPS transmitters are high in the air connected to balloons, everyone knows they are not in space.

[TheHappySinner]

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man

Once I am in Heaven I will sure to tell Jesus about your demands. It will be a good laugh for the both of us.

Hm, so according to your theory if a parachutist jumps out of an airplane the plane and the parachutist will remain moving at the same speed?

So in your theory up is exactly the same direction for those in the USA as for those in Australia?

Of course, this is caused by trees blocking your view. When you are higher the trees no longer block your view so you can see things at greater distances.

It's a desert, the phenomena you are describing is caused by hot air working as a reflector.

GPS nodes are high in the air connected to balloons, everyone knows they are not in space.

#1 Evidence=Good, not a difficult request.

#2 Parachutists stop accelerating when they drop, wind resistence slows them down slowly. If this didn't happen, they would be ripped apart os asphyxiated. Parachutists also lack a means of propulsion/do not have enough energy in their bodies (not caloric energy) to maintain 700 KPH for Billins of Years, the Earth does. When we are Connected to or near the Earth we share the same speed since for all intents and purposes, we are part of the planet.

#3 "Up" is relative. Austalian "Up" is our "Down" and vice versa.

#4 No, if you are higher, you can see past the majority of the most turbulent point of the atmosphere (Troposphere), and you may also see (in theory) about 1-4 KM farther due to the most extreme angles of the Earth being revealed.

#5 If this was done once, without cross-referencing, I would agree.

BUT:

A: It's done at the cool night, 4 hours after sundown to allow cooling.

B: The results have been peer-reviewed & accepted by reputable scientists (In the past).

C: You can reliably reproduce this 10 + times and it never deviates from the observed area.

D: Heat distortion would be more extreme than a few MM, often several CM.

etc

#6 GPS balloons would freeze from the cold temperatures, they would sink due to sublimated ice collecting on the inflatable area. The equipment would be in very poor condition and could not reliably show your exact location. Air currents, however weak, would gradually pull the Ballons from their preset "Geo-synchronus orbit" into erractic patterns.

Need I continue? Do you assume I'm retarded?

[John Scopes]

Originally Posted by TheHappySinner

Need I continue? Do you assume I'm retarded?

This is not a productive question in this place.

[Brother Alex]

Originally Posted by TheHappySinner

Ah, Osbourne and his total inability to grasp simple concepts, yahoo.

Mocking our dearly beloved Pastor won't get you any closer to the gates of heaven. Why do you hate Jesus so much?

Well, the bible isn't a historical document or a reliable text book, so that I dismiss out of hand. If God himself told me the World was Flat, he'd have to prove it, as evidence supports otherwise.

The Holy Bible, Authorized King James Version of 1611 is the most advanced and accurate science book ever written. It was written by God himself as stated in 2nd Timothy 3:16:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

If you look at creationism you would see that everything written in this good book is indeed supported by strong historical and scientific evidence, and as it was written by God himself (as the Bible proves) then why even doubt it?

#1. We are all moving at the exact same speed as the Earth is. If you jump up, since you & the Earth are moving the exact same speed, it appears as if you moved very little or at all.

That's just more proof that the Earth does not move as stated in Psalm 96:10:

"Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously."

Don't try and say we would get killed by the 1000 KPH winds either, the wind is moving with us as well, so it has no APPARENT movement. Wind, forward movement etc are generally just minor additions to their already fantasic (But apparently slow) movement speed.

Everything you want to know about winds can be found within Ecclesiastes 1:6:

"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits."

That, however, does not change the fact that the world is flat.

Job 28:24 "For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;"

#2 Gravity is what gives us the conception of "Up" & "Down". In space there is no such serious force, so when those great pioneers go into space, they have to label or paint the floor & ceiling to know which is which.

If you lived in Australia, you wouldn't be "Below" the northern hemisphere, you would be "South" of it. To australians the USA is upside down, but only due to gravity do they think their "Up" is THE "Up", while we think vice versa. If you think Gravity is a lie, well, then you are a lost cause

Gravity is only a theory and has little to do with real science. Creation scientists have come to the conclusion that the reason why we don't fall off the Earth is due to divine forces such as intelligent falling and intelligent pulling, not gravity.

#3 This is actually pretty ignorant. If you are higher on a mountain the apparent horizon streches further than if you were on a plain @ sea level. The farthest you could ever possibly see would be about 100 KM on a very clear day on a very tall mountan due to atmosphereic refraction.

If you would ever care to, go to this kind of place called a "Salt Flat". Salt flats are basically blasted-away ruins of an old lake which have extrmely uniform surfaces & are basically perfectly flat plains. They're also in the Nevada desert, but who's counting?

On these magical plains (Which I have personally visited) set up a low-powered laser emitter (Xenon is preferable due to myraid factors) that has relatively high output, & using measuring tape, walk 10 KM (Short hike, bring water or use light vehicle instead) in a straight line. After communicating via radio that you are at the objective, ask your collegue to activate the laser & hit your deployed marker.

If you did this correctly, the laser should hit roughly a milimetre or so above the center of the target (I forget the exact measurement). The normal view (Espoused here) would say that it would hit the center, but it is just off in an actually visible way, which proves that the Earth is a sphere.

This doesn't prove anything as it doesn't fit in with Biblical teachings. Keep your retarded fantasies to yourself or get out of here.

Or, for the lazy ones here, just look at your GPS, wich shows a triangulated signal from ORBITING satellites, a picture of the Earth from space. Watch a space shuttle take off into space & ORBIT the Earth. or just use common sense, gravity causes all objects greater than 50 KM or so to collapse into an Ellipsoid shape, which the Earth is.

GPS is just yet another tool that scientists use to deceive the public into following their strange, satanic ideas. Yet again, this does not prove anything but the fact that secular scientists are devil-worshiping liars.

Sigh, I'm going to be flamed for this.

No, you're going to roast in hell unless you convert to True Christianity™ and pray to Jesus for His forgiveness. Until then, enjoy hell.

[quitestupid]

Originally Posted by Brother Alex

No, you're going to roast in hell unless you convert to True Christianity™ and pray to Jesus for His forgiveness. Until then, enjoy hell.

In an earlier post, I said that God loved everyone, to which I was corrected saying he hates most people (even some of his own worshipers). But I have another question: Why would God create people that he knew would turn out bad? If God created the atheist, and then decided to hate him, it seems to me as though God is just punishing other people for his own mistakes.

And I still have yet to get a response to my other question, if the Earth is flat, where do timezones come from?

[Brother Alex]

Originally Posted by quitestupid

In an earlier post, I said that God loved everyone, to which I was corrected saying he hates most people (even some of his own worshipers). But I have another question: Why would God create people that he knew would turn out bad? If God created the atheist, and then decided to hate him, it seems to me as though God is just punishing other people for his own mistakes.

Well, God created those people for His own entertainment as stated in the Book of Proverbs:

Proverbs 1:23-30 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

[TheHappySinner]

Originally Posted by Brother Alex

Mocking our dearly beloved Pastor won't get you any closer to the gates of heaven. Why do you hate Jesus so much?

The Holy Bible, Authorized King James Version of 1611 is the most advanced and accurate science book ever written. It was written by God himself as stated in 2nd Timothy 3:16:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

If you look at creationism you would see that everything written in this good book is indeed supported by strong historical and scientific evidence, and as it was written by God himself (as the Bible proves) then why even doubt it?

That's just more proof that the Earth does not move as stated in Psalm 96:10:

"Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously."

Everything you want to know about winds can be found within Ecclesiastes 1:6:

"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits."

That, however, does not change the fact that the world is flat.

Job 28:24 "For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;"

Gravity is only a theory and has little to do with real science. Creation scientists have come to the conclusion that the reason why we don't fall off the Earth is due to divine forces such as intelligent falling and intelligent pulling, not gravity.

This doesn't prove anything as it doesn't fit in with Biblical teachings. Keep your retarded fantasies to yourself or get out of here.

GPS is just yet another tool that scientists use to deceive the public into following their strange, satanic ideas. Yet again, this does not prove anything but the fact that secular scientists are devil-worshiping liars.

No, you're going to roast in hell unless you convert to True Christianity™ and pray to Jesus for His forgiveness. Until then, enjoy hell.

Aside from Josephus, Paul and perhaps the diciples, none of the people in the bible are known to have existed. Jesus is likely based of a traveling preacher who preached the beautiful message of Peace and tolerance to all men, who was totally unselfish and was abosrbed only in the help of others. Jesus or at least the person he is modled from is one of my inspirations, it shows me people can be truly benevolent in a time of great sorrow.

And the Pastor can honestly suck it if he can't take criticism, if his ideas are wrong then so be it.

No Creationist publication is unbiased, Lee strobel for instance talks to Christians and only Christians fo fears he will be disagreed with. Also, care to link the peer reviewed journal that these creationist published their findings in? no? ok.

Also, None of the miracles as described in the Bible have been conclusvely demonstarted by a SECULAR (Unbiased; not Atheist) publication. Nice try.

I like how toy attempt to prove the bible is correct by telling me Bible Verses, which are totally & diametrically oposed to science & it's findings. And the Bible doesn't mention: Plate Tectonics, Other star systems, Atmosphere composition, order of the planets, Heliocentricisim, Antibiotics, Scientific method etc. Some text book.

Without Gravity the strength of Dark energy's repulsive pull would cause the universe to explode ( eventually form a gigantic event horizon. And "Theory" means "A hypothesis which is supported by a large body of evidence and is likely to be true/likely."

The Bible is a book, follow observations.

GPS is impossible or very simply impractical without satellites in orbit. And why would honest Scientists hide this fact again? the hate god apparently? Well, aside from the fact that 60% or so of scientists believe in a personal god I would assume that this conspiracy would be quite difficult to keep secret.

"You will be Forced to Watch Miley Cyrus Concerts in Disneyland for all time!" NNNNNOOOOOO!!!.

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by quitestupid

If the Earth was were flat (subjunctive), how would we have timezones?

—> because the sun moves across the Earth at first being over one location and then, later being over another location. If it had not been so Joshua would not have experienced this:

EVIDENCE
JOSHUA 10 ©1611
7 So Ioshua ascended from Gilgal, he, and all the people of warre with him, and all the mighty men of valour.
8 And the Lord said vnto Ioshua, Feare them not: for I haue deliuered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.
9 Ioshua therefore came vnto them suddenly, and went vp from Gilgal all night.
10 And the Lord discomfited them before Israel, and slewe them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth vp to Bethoron, and smote them to Azekah and vnto Makkedah.
11 And it came to passe as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going downe to Bethoron, that the Lord cast downe great stones from heauen vpon them, vnto Azekah, and they died: they were moe which died with hailestones, then they whome the children of Israel slew with the sword.
12 Then spake Ioshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord deliuered vp the Amorites before the children of Israel, and hee said in the sight of Israel, Sunne, stand thou still vpon Gibeon, and thou Moone in the valley of Aialon.
13 And the Sunne stood still, and the Moone stayed, vntill the people had auenged themselues vpon their enemies. Is not this written in the booke of Iasher? So the Sunne stood still in the midst of heauen, and hasted not to goe downe, about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that, before it, or after it, that the Lord hearkened vnto the voyce of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.
15 And Ioshua returned, and all Israel with him, vnto the campe to Gilgal.

PROOF
Habakkuk 3 ©1611
11 The Sunne and Moone stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrowes they went, and at the shining of thy glittering speare.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the saluation of thy people, euen for saluation with thine Anointed, thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discouering the foundation vnto the necke. Selah.
______________

..so it was the case, then.

EVIDENCE
ISAIAH 38 ©1611
4 Then came the word of the Lord to Isaiah, saying,
5 Goe and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the Lord, the God of Dauid thy father; I haue heard thy prayer, I haue seene thy teares: behold, I will adde vnto thy dayes fifteene yeeres.
6 And I will deliuer thee and this citie, out of the hand of the king of Assyria: and I will defend this citie.
7 And this shall be a signe vnto thee from the Lord, that the Lord will doe this thing that he hath spoken.
8 Behold, I will bring againe the shadow of the degrees which is gone downe in the Sunne-diall of Ahaz ten degrees backward: so the Sunne returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone downe.

PROOF
II KINGS 20 ©1611
8 And Hezekiah said vnto Isaiah, What shall bee the signe that the Lord wil heale me, and that I shall goe vp into the house of the Lord the third day?
9 And Isaiah said, This signe shalt thou haue of the Lord, that the Lord will doe the thing that hee hath spoken: shall the shadow goe forward ten degrees, or goe backe tenne degrees?
10 And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go downe tenne degrees: nay, but let the shadow returne backward tenne degrees.
11 And Isaiah the Prophet cryed vnto the Lord, and he brought the shadow tenne degrees backeward, by which it had gone downe in the diall of Ahaz.
______________

..it was so and it is so now: where the sun shines it is day - where the sun shone is day no more.

[UnholyScientist]

[QUOTE=Rev. Jim Osborne;546046]We know the Earth is flat because the Bible tells us so. But for those of you skeptical, close-minded types that flat out refuse to accept the overwhelming Biblical evidence, I have designed some experiments you can do at home that will show you, before your very eyes, that the world is indeed flat, and not spherical as some crazy scientists proclaim. It's amazing how many people blindly believe in a spherical Earth, without ever having seen it for themselves! I intend to change that.


1) Jump!
Now, scientists claim that Earth is spherical and rotating at a speed of between 700-1000 miles per hour, depending on your latitude. This is a very high rate of speed. You can disprove this nonsense by simply jumping up as high as you can. Really, it's that simple. What happens when you jump? You come straight down to where you were. But, if the Earth were indeed spinning at such a fast speed, wouldn't you land hundreds of feet away?

If you were to stand in the flat bed of a truck going 75 mph, and jump straight up, what would happen? You wouldn't fall straight down. You would fall out of the truck. That's because trucks move, the Earth doesn't. This experiment proves the Earth is fixed in space and doesn't move.

Rev. Jim Osborne[/]

In reference to #1.

let's try a different experiment.
What you need:
a car
a friend
a bouncy ball or golf ball.

now, have your friend drive the car while you sit in the passenger seat.
Have the friend drive about 30 miles per hour (mph) on a straight road. Now, toss the bouncy ball or golf ball straight up about 5 inches away from your hand. You will notice that the ball will fall directly down into your hand in the exact place where you released it.

but how can this be?!

The car was moving 30 mph, and you tossed the ball up into the air. shouldn't it have moved from where you released it?

going by the logic in #1, it should have moved.

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by TheHappySinner

Do you assume I'm retarded?

No. I am certain you are retarded.

[DawkinsCanHelp]

Are idiots. I really thought this was a joke when I first stumbled upon it. If you even had a vague understanding of science and natural laws rather than what's instilled in you by some book written 100's of years ago, you might find out you can actually think for yourself once in a while. But as it were, I find myself feeling more sorry for you than angry about your ignorance. It's truly a pity that you people herd like sheep, unquestioning, loyal to a biggot. Perhaps your ignorance is your bliss, so good luck with that.

[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Originally Posted by DawkinsCanHelp

Are idiots. I really thought this was a joke when I first stumbled upon it. If you even had a vague understanding of science and natural laws rather than what's instilled in you by some book written 100's of years ago, you might find out you can actually think for yourself once in a while. But as it were, I find myself feeling more sorry for you than angry about your ignorance. It's truly a pity that you people herd like sheep, unquestioning, loyal to a biggot. Perhaps your ignorance is your bliss, so good luck with that.

Seeking Salvation is no joke! We Christians don't need to understand science and natural laws because we already know the Truth. Why is this, you ask? God created the World and wrote about it in the Bible. Scientists didn't create the world so who do you think knows better? God or the scientists? If you are too retarded to figure this one out one your own I can tell you that it is God who knows best. In fact God is all knowing and this fact disproves all science that is in contradiction with the Bible.

Don't feel sorry for us. It is you who is going to burn for eternity unless you repent:

Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[Drynwhyl]

Um, wow. This has got to be one of the most stupid and ignorant things I've read in a while.
Let me educate you good people, though I doubt you'll listen...

1. Jump, yes the earth moves at a very high speed and because we are all on the earth we are all moving at the same speed as the earth. This goes for if you are on a train for example, If you jump then you will land in the same place because you are inside the train and therefore moving at the same speed. Try it out next time you hop on the train.

2. The balloon experiment. Really don't know where to begin with this one, the whole idea is so ridiculous. The reason this experiment is totally fallacious is because: a balloon has very little density, which is why a balloon floats, If you wanted to do this experiment properly, you would need a ball of very dense metals and a piece of paper cut to microscopic proportions. The more dense an object is, the greater its gravitational pull.

3. Get high, sounded like good advice until I read the full thing...
Actually, once at a higher vantage point it is much easier to see the curvature of the earth; I think what Jimmy doesn't get is actually how massive the earth really is and how our eyes can only see so far.

noticed one or two racist smilies here as well...
doesn't sound like "Love one another" to me...

[Drynwhyl]

I guess while I'm here as well, I'll give you the truth about god...



Perfection Seeks Even More Perfection
What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.


Perfection Begets Imperfection

But, for the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God.

What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.


The Freewill Argument

The Christians' objection to this argument involves freewill. They say that a being must have freewill to be happy. The omnibenevolent God did not wish to create robots, so he gave humans freewill to enable them to experience love and happiness. But the humans used this freewill to choose evil, and introduced imperfection into God's originally perfect universe. God had no control over this decision, so the blame for our imperfect universe is on the humans, not God.

Here is why the argument is weak. First, if God is omnipotent, then the assumption that freewill is necessary for happiness is false. If God could make it a rule that only beings with freewill may experience happiness, then he could just as easily have made it a rule that only robots may experience happiness. The latter option is clearly superior, since perfect robots will never make decisions which could render them or their creator unhappy, whereas beings with freewill could. A perfect and omnipotent God who creates beings capable of ruining their own happiness is impossible.

Second, even if we were to allow the necessity of freewill for happiness, God could have created humans with freewill who did not have the ability to choose evil, but to choose between several good options.
Third, God supposedly has freewill, and yet he does not make imperfect decisions. If humans are miniature images of God, our decisions should likewise be perfect. Also, the occupants of heaven, who presumably must have freewill to be happy, will never use that freewill to make imperfect decisions. Why would the originally perfect humans do differently?

The point remains: the presence of imperfections in the universe disproves the supposed perfection of its creator.


All-good God Knowingly Creates Future Suffering

God is omniscient. When he created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born (in fact, the Bible says this very thing), and surely this all-compassionate deity would have foregone the creation of a universe destined to imperfection in which many of the humans were doomed to eternal suffering. A perfectly compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible.


Infinite Punishment for Finite Sins

God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely more unjust than this punishment. The absurd injustice of this infinite punishment is even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of human imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible.


Belief More Important Than Action

Consider all of the people who live in the remote regions of the world who have never even heard the "gospel" of Jesus Christ. Consider the people who have naturally adhered to the religion of their parents and nation as they had been taught to do since birth. If we are to believe the Christians, all of these people will perish in the eternal fire for not believing in Jesus. It does not matter how just, kind, and generous they have been with their fellow humans during their lifetime: if they do not accept the gospel of Jesus, they are condemned. No just God would ever judge a man by his beliefs rather than his actions.


Perfection's Imperfect Revelation

The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means of overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books which is the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man.

No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean, since much of it is either self- contradictory, or obscured by enigmatic symbols. And yet the perfect God expects us imperfect humans to understand this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man.


Contradictory Justice

One need look to no source other than the Bible to discover its imperfections, for it contradicts itself and thus exposes its own imperfection. It contradicts itself on matters of justice, for the same just God who assures his people that sons shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers turns around and destroys an entire household for the sin of one man (he had stolen some of Yahweh's war loot). It was this same Yahweh who afflicted thousands of his innocent people with plague and death to punish their evil king David for taking a census (?!). It was this same Yahweh who allowed the humans to slaughter his son because the perfect Yahweh had botched his own creation. Consider how many have been stoned, burned, slaughtered, raped, and enslaved because of Yahweh's skewed sense of justice. The blood of innocent babies is on the perfect, just, compassionate hands of Yahweh.


Contradictory History

The Bible contradicts itself on matters of history. A person who reads and compares the contents of the Bible will be confused about exactly who Esau's wives were, whether Timnah was a concubine or a son, and whether Jesus' earthly lineage is through Solomon or his brother Nathan. These are but a few of hundreds of documented historical contradictions. If the Bible cannot confirm itself in mundane earthly matters, how are we to trust it on moral and spiritual matters?


Unfulfilled Prophecy

The Bible misinterprets its own prophecies. Read Isaiah 7 and compare it to Matthew 1 to find but one of many misinterpreted prophecies of which Christians are either passively or willfully ignorant. The fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible is cited as proof of its divine inspiration, and yet here is but one major example of a prophecy whose intended meaning has been and continues to be twisted to support subsequent absurd and false doctrines. There are no ends to which the credulous will not go to support their feeble beliefs in the face of compelling evidence against them.

The Bible is imperfect. It only takes one imperfection to destroy the supposed perfection of this alleged Word of God. Many have been found. A perfect God who reveals his perfect will in an imperfect book is impossible.


The Omniscient Changes the Future

A God who knows the future is powerless to change it. An omniscient God who is all-powerful and freewilled is impossible.


The Omniscient is Surprised

A God who knows everything cannot have emotions. The Bible says that God experiences all of the emotions of humans, including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react.

We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.


The Conclusion of the matter

I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non- existence, of the Christian God Yahweh. No reasonable and freethinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is so contradictory as that of Yahweh, the "perfect" creator of our imperfect universe. The existence of Yahweh is as impossible as the existence of cubic spheres or invisible pink unicorns.

Should any Christian who reads this persist in defending these impossibilities through means of "divine transcendence" and "faith," and should any Christian continue to call me an atheist fool, I will be forced to invoke the wrath of the Invisible Pink Unicorn:

"You are a fool for denying the existence of the IPU. You have rejected true faith and have relied on your feeble powers of human reason and thus arrogantly denied the existence of Her Divine Transcendence, and so are you condemned."

If such arguments are good enough for Yahweh, they are good enough for Her Invisible Pinkness.
As for me and my house, we shall choose reality.









<---- P.S. He was the same colour as all the muslims you are hating on...

[BelieverInGod]

[Thy Horror Cosmic]

I really hope you Christians are just trolling, because if not, I'm moving out of this backwards country as soon as possible.

Obviously NONE of you are familiar with the book you base all of your ideals, morals, and ethics upon (which is not only hilarious because none of you can think for yourself, but also because this "holy" book includes acts of violence against those that violate your "sacred beliefs," such as haircuts. Think of that next time you decide to go for a trim). If you were, you'd instantly recall a passage that states that so-called disciples of "god" should not judge others; it is left up to "god" itself. So, in violation of this, all of you that assume the role of your deity, blaspheming its essence in the process, are to be condemned to hell just as surely as those you claim will be similarly condemned for being "heretics."

In short, you're all just as much of sinners as those you so righteously condemn.

You christians never cease to outdo yourselves when it comes to ignorance. Exhibit A:

Enjoy your sad, fruitless lives, which will surely prove themselves to be a waste as you slowly realize there is no afterlife!

Perhaps if you christians weren't so hateful, thick-headed and ignorant, non-believers would take you more seriously. Instead, you decide to base all of your "personal" thoughts and feelings on a book; the meaning of which has been lost by time and numerous translations. You're all nothing but bigots and the sole reason why I cannot wait until the end of the days, just so you're all proven wrong once and for all. Maybe then you'll step off your holy pedestal.

[Thy Horror Cosmic]

Originally Posted by BelieverInGod

I suppose you just ignore anyone that doesn't share your absolutely mormonic beliefs, right? Considering the first post in this thread was just as long-winded...but that's ok, because you agreed with it! Way to be a sheep. I hope you savor your meaningless existence, because I sure will.

Also, "Unsaved trash?" Really?

I know you guys need something to make yourselves feel better about worshipping your common imaginary friend, but I don't think labeling all of those who are of a different belief system as "trash" is appropriate. Maybe you guys should try yoga. Or meditation. Or maybe you need a good punch in the piffleing head so you'll realize how braindead all of you really are.

[Sam Diamond]

Originally Posted by Thy Horror Cosmic

I really hope you Christians are just trolling, because if not, I'm moving out of this backwards country as soon as possible.

Obviously NONE of you are familiar with the book you base all of your ideals, morals, and ethics upon (which is not only hilarious because none of you can think for yourself, but also because this "holy" book includes acts of violence against those that violate your "sacred beliefs," such as haircuts. Think of that next time you decide to go for a trim). If you were, you'd instantly recall a passage that states that so-called disciples of "god" should not judge others; it is left up to "god" itself. So, in violation of this, all of you that assume the role of your deity, blaspheming its essence in the process, are to be condemned to hell just as surely as those you claim will be similarly condemned for being "heretics."

In short, you're all just as much of sinners as those you so righteously condemn.

You christians never cease to outdo yourselves when it comes to ignorance. Exhibit A:

Enjoy your sad, fruitless lives, which will surely prove themselves to be a waste as you slowly realize there is no afterlife!

Perhaps if you christians weren't so hateful, thick-headed and ignorant, non-believers would take you more seriously. Instead, you decide to base all of your "personal" thoughts and feelings on a book; the meaning of which has been lost by time and numerous translations. You're all nothing but bigots and the sole reason why I cannot wait until the end of the days, just so you're all proven wrong once and for all. Maybe then you'll step off your holy pedestal.

I will make this rebuke short and sweet.
first off this thread is on the subject of proving the earth is flat. It seems that you do have a reading comprehension problem.

Secondly we as True Christians are indeed commissioned to judge the unrighteous. If need be I will produce said scripture, but I have a feeling you will not comprehend what is written. Now we follow the Word of God right down to the period, so if you feel that we are bigots for doing so, there is little help for you.

Have a great day, Sam Diamond.