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Default Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:01 PM

Answer: Only in James 2:24-where it is rejected.

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

So, that should defeat your arguments that once on "accepts Christ as (his) personal Lord and Savior" that he is saved, and thus can sin all he wants.

P.S. For all you who try to argue sola fide, sola scriptura...If you don't like the Catholic Church, why are you still using Latin?
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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
Answer: Only in James 2:24-where it is rejected.

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

So, that should defeat your arguments that once on "accepts Christ as (his) personal Lord and Savior" that he is saved, and thus can sin all he wants.
Where have we ever tried to argue against the importance of works? Where have we ever claimed that the Saved can sin all they want? We simply claim that, once one has allowed the Holy Spirit to enter into their heart, they are cleansed of the desire to sin, and so with Christ running their life, they will want to carry out the Lord's work.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Or do you claim that someone who is ruled by the Holy Spirit would want to commit sin? Being born again in Jesus is a wonderful thing - why don't you try it?


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Temperance View Post
Where have we ever tried to argue against the importance of works? Where have we ever claimed that the Saved can sin all they want? We simply claim that, once one has allowed the Holy Spirit to enter into their heart, they are cleansed of the desire to sin, and so with Christ running their life, they will want to carry out the Lord's work.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Or do you claim that someone who is ruled by the Holy Spirit would want to commit sin? Being born again in Jesus is a wonderful thing - why don't you try it?
My second birth in Jesus came when I was baptized as a baby. You do not lose your free will when you become a Christian-yes, you remain a sinner-but that's what the Sacrament of Reconciliation is for.

Take this case:

A man is "born again" as a teenager, then goes to the theological school, becomes a minister, and serves the Church for 50 years. Then, one night, he commits adultery, shoots his wife, delibirately runs over a pedestrian, and commits suicide (Let's presume he isn't insane). He dies unrepentant.

Is he saved or damned? Does he go to heaven or hell?
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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
Take this case:

A man is "born again" as a teenager, then goes to the theological school, becomes a minister, and serves the Church for 50 years. Then, one night, he commits adultery, shoots his wife, delibirately runs over a pedestrian, and commits suicide (Let's presume he isn't insane). He dies unrepentant.

Is he saved or damned? Does he go to heaven or hell?
Unless they got some good Joo Lawyers at the Pearly Gates then I reckon he was never a True Christian™ in the first place and he'll rot in Hell.

But then that's my compassionate opinion.



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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Talitha View Post
Unless they got some good Joo Lawyers at the Pearly Gates then I reckon he was never a True Christian™ in the first place and he'll rot in Hell.

But then that's my compassionate opinion.
What you're saying is very close to the Catholic opinion. You are saying that we can't tell whether someone really is born again until he's safely dead. We might think, for years, that someone is born again, but his actions late in life might disprove our assumption.
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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
What you're saying is very close to the Catholic opinion. You are saying that we can't tell whether someone really is born again until he's safely dead. We might think, for years, that someone is born again, but his actions late in life might disprove our assumption.
NO!!

I'm saying there's no Joo's in Heaven!

If Pastor tells me someone has been Born again then that's good enough for me.



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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
What you're saying is very close to the Catholic opinion. You are saying that we can't tell whether someone really is born again until he's safely dead.
We might think, for years, that someone is born again, but his actions late in life might disprove our assumption.
So you agree that if someone sins, that proves he was never truly born again in the first place?


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 07-15-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Temperance View Post
So you agree that if someone sins, that proves he was never truly born again in the first place?

No, I just say that your right to go to heaven can be lost through mortal sin-And you'll need the Sacrament of Reconciliation to handle it before you die, or else you go where you think I'd go when I die....

This is true even in the case of someone, like the minister, who himself thought he was a born-again Christian. Your argument must be that he was mistaken, as shown by his later sins. The conclusion is that between the ages of 15 and 75 he could not have had a true absolute assurance of salvation, because such an assurance is not available until one's final moments.

This is very like the Catholic teaching, which holds that we can have a moral assurance of salvation but not an absolute assurance. We can have confidence that we will go to heaven if we now are in the state of sanctifying grace and realize that God gives us enough helping graces to remain in sanctifying grace, but we can't have an absolute assurance of salvation because, knowing our weaknesses, we know that we might sin grievously in the future, forfeiting everything.
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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 11-09-2007, 07:10 PM

What a stupid, if not outright deceitful question, Thomas.

It's just as stupid as saying:
"The Bible doesn't say it's forbidden to be a homosexual, it only says it's forbidden for men to sleep with men, therefore it's OK to be gay."
It's nothing but wordplay nonsense so what you're doing here is simply being willfully ignorant.

The term faith alone is just that: a TERM.
It's not written as "faith alone" in the Bible, just as "homosexual" isn't in the Bible, but the meaning of the term is there!
THIS is faith alone:

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
But by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
That we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law:
For by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
the Catholic opinion. You are saying that we can't tell whether someone really is born again until he's safely dead..
And so you contradict the Word of God again.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:16-18


If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: But if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.
A foolish woman is clamorous: She is simple, and knoweth nothing.
Proverbs 9:12-13
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Default Re: Where is the term "faith alone" in the bible? - 11-09-2007, 11:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker View Post
And so you contradict the Word of God again.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:16-18
Praise! The Romanist institution is a corrupt tree indeed, and what has it brought forth to our board? An evil fruit, that's what.


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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