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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-24-2009, 10:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
Take a look at THIS thread, which contains actual video evidence!

Yikes -- the videos have been removed. (Of course this happens all the time on message boards, after a time.)

If you happen to know who originally posted them, or their title, I can find them at the YouTube site.
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-24-2009, 01:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Isabella Abbey View Post
Oh, ALL the framers of the constitution were Liberals, radical ones. The "Conservatives" were loyal to the Crown.

Would you please give an example of the witchcraft you've seen at work? Are there widespread manifestations of malignant manipulation of 'natural law' the public isn't seeing?
Witchcraft is like unto that piece of wallpaper in your room that isn’t quite right – no one notices it until it is pointed out and then it becomes glaringly obvious.

The works of Satan’s minions are all about us – cows that go dry for no apparent reason; our money making ideas that leave us with a loss; the sudden unaccountable stomach illness when on holiday in Mexico; the rains when we want fine weather; the drought when we want rain, etc.

Oh yes, those secular scientists are experts at explaining away these events individually to avert our eyes from the schemes of the Lord of Darkness but what other overall explanation is so convincing as witchcraft?

Your average jigaboo in Bongo-Bongoland is nearer to his roots and unaffected by sophistry: he sees witchcraft clearly. Even their women realize the dangers http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spiri...witchcraft.htm

If I may quote from that article,
Quote:
Barrenness. Women who are barren (this truly is an utterly DISGRACEFUL condition in all African cultures) go to some healer who gives them a strange concoction to drink and utters an appropriate incantation. A few months later the woman gives birth. I personally have always wondered whether or not the offsprings are demon-possessed from birth. Of course demons can cause barrenness in the first place.
Now, nearer home, we have Helen Duncan, convicted in England in 1944 of witchcraft under section 4 of the Witchcraft Act 1735. Here was a witch, obeying her master, and giving aid to the evil of Hitler.



We look at what these cases have in common – yes, adversity! We see that whilst we live a cosseted life, we do not see the crooked wallpaper, but when times are hard and we have to, instinctively by God’s Gift, we see and recognize witchcraft in all its vile abominations.





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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-24-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
Witchcraft is like unto that piece of wallpaper in your room that isn’t quite right – no one notices it until it is pointed out and then it becomes glaringly obvious.

The works of Satan’s minions are all about us – cows that go dry or no apparent reason; our money making ideas that leave us with a loss; the sudden unaccountable stomach illness when on holiday in Mexico; the rains when we want fine weather; the drought when we want rain, etc.

Oh yes, those secular scientists are experts at explaining away these events individually to avert our eyes from the schemes of the Lord of Darkness but what other overall explanation is so convincing as witchcraft?

We look at what these cases have in common – yes, adversity! We see that whilst we live a cosseted life, we do not see the crooked wallpaper, but when times are hard and we have to, instinctively by God’s Gift, we see and recognize witchcraft in all its vile abominations.
Thank you, Mr. Bathfire; that was a very thoughtful response. And the "Occam's Razor" approach would support your position, in that it is easiest and simplest to attribute most or all adverse events to witchcraft and, accordingly, women with both devious intent and magical powers. But please tell me what you think of this: Is it possible that chains of events, which we can see and follow, and patterns in, for example, drought cycles, male pattern baldness, economic shifts and epidemiology, are more likely the causative or at least contributing factors to these unfortunate moments, rather than occult craftwork that we can't see, prove or document? We wouldn't want to inadvertently accuse and punish innocent people, would we?

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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-26-2009, 12:14 AM

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Originally Posted by Isabella Abbey View Post
Thank you, Mr. Bathfire; that was a very thoughtful response. And the "Occam's Razor" approach would support your position, in that it is easiest and simplest to attribute most or all adverse events to witchcraft and, accordingly, women with both devious intent and magical powers. But please tell me what you think of this: Is it possible that chains of events, which we can see and follow, and patterns in, for example, drought cycles, male pattern baldness, economic shifts and epidemiology, are more likely the causative or at least contributing factors to these unfortunate moments, rather than occult craftwork that we can't see, prove or document? We wouldn't want to inadvertently accuse and punish innocent people, would we?

For starters, no one is innocent in God's eyes, Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Where there is smoke, there is fire. And if they happen to be not technically witches, then there is some other gross sin they are most likely guilt of. Anyway, in the end, God's sorts it all out.

Secondly, we know that witchcraft and demonology are one and the same; demons being the source of power for practitioners of witchcraft. We know that demons are active in the affairs of men and this world, Ephesians 2
Quote:
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 6
Quote:
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Why try to invoke a string of random coincidences together when demonic activity is already well documented, established, and sourced. Unless you are trying to cover for demons and witches?


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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-26-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella Abbey View Post
Thank you, Mr. Bathfire; that was a very thoughtful response. And the "Occam's Razor" approach would support your position, in that it is easiest and simplest to attribute most or all adverse events to witchcraft and, accordingly, women with both devious intent and magical powers. But please tell me what you think of this: Is it possible that chains of events, which we can see and follow, and patterns in, for example, drought cycles, male pattern baldness, economic shifts and epidemiology, are more likely the causative or at least contributing factors to these unfortunate moments, rather than occult craftwork that we can't see, prove or document? We wouldn't want to inadvertently accuse and punish innocent people, would we?

You're a damned witch, aren't you.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-26-2009, 02:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
You're a damned witch, aren't you.
Not even remotely. At witchcraft, I'd be a ridiculous failure. When I was a teenager one of my friends had an Ouija board, and I couldn't even participate without cracking up laughing.

I met a woman once who told me she was a witch. I was in far too merry of a mood at the time, and I forgot myself -- I said, "Really? Are you going to make up a potion to make yourself beautiful?"

I swear, I didn't mean it like that at the time. I was just trying to make conversation......

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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-26-2009, 02:52 AM

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Originally Posted by David Goldman View Post

Why try to invoke a string of random coincidences together when demonic activity is already well documented, established, and sourced. Unless you are trying to cover for demons and witches?
No, and I'm too zonked to sort it out. I better go hit the sack, before I misbehave more and get another red dot on my reputation.



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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-30-2009, 10:09 PM

Remarkable- posters here really are prepared to tell the truth, "in season and out." And you are all absolutely correct: true Christians ought hold the Constitution of the United States of America in very low esteem indeed. First, let's examine the so-called "Founding Fathers:" Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Jay, James Madison, and Alexander Hamilton. John Jay once said, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest, of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." That's admirable, I suppose.

Make it last, though. Only Jay, Madison, and Hamilton could could even remotely be viewed as Christians, and that's if you close one eye and squint. All the rest were Deists, including the most overrated reprobate in the Devil's Kingdom: George Wasington. Deists explicitly reject the Deity of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Going down, sir?

Here's a useful link outlining the religions of every signatory to the detestable document. Deists and Unitarian Universalists? Explicitly non-Christians. Roman Catholics? They'll argue otherwise, but the jury has been in for over 500 years: unsaved. Congregationalists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists? I'm sure they were somewhat more faithful to the Word back then, but still: look where they are today. With the exception of a few Lutherans and Presbyterians, they're liberal, gay-affirming, namby-pamby crypto-universalists to a man. That leaves, out of ALL the Founding Fathers and Signatories to the Constitution, exactly TWO (2) robust, faithful men of God: John Lansing Jr and Robert Yates, Dutch Reformed Church members.

And as if further proof were needed that Almighty God has a sense of humor: Dutch Reformed Christians sprinkle babies and call it baptism! In my opinion, that's not a deal-breaker- they're still brothers in Christ. It is a very serious error that wiser and more spiritually mature Christians such as the leadership of Landover ought to reprove and correct before offering Reformed Christians fellowship. But check it out: that means none- zero, zip, zilch, nada- of the Founding Fathers and Signatories to the Constitution of the United States of America could walk into a modern Evangelical Church such as Landover and feel at home.

What does that tell you?
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-30-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella Abbey View Post
Thank you, Mr. Bathfire; [reluctantly, for brevity, deleting a bit that says I’m correct] please tell me what you think of this: Is it possible that chains of events, which we can see and follow, and patterns in, for example, drought cycles, male pattern baldness, economic shifts and epidemiology, are more likely the causative or at least contributing factors to these unfortunate moments, rather than occult craftwork that we can't see, prove or document? We wouldn't want to inadvertently accuse and punish innocent people, would we?
You describe these things as both as “patterns” and “unfortunate moments”, now I suggest they are one or the other, witchcraft fits perfectly your idea of patterns; patterns typical of the work of Satan.


You suggest that “occult craftwork” is something “that we can't see, prove or document” Yet I have given prime examples and you have given even more of witchcraft!

Do I really need to tell you that not being able to see, prove or document something, neither proves nor disproves its existence? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.





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Author of such illuminating essays as,
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-30-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tom View Post
Satanic rant snipped
What does that tell you?
It tells me that you are some kind of commie, godless, gay, history revisionist who likes to cherry pick facts in a pathetic attempt to make some kind of obscure, feeble point.

Shoo demon!


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Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
2 Timothy 2:15
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 11:50 AM

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Originally Posted by David Goldman View Post
It tells me that you are some kind of commie, godless, gay, history revisionist who likes to cherry pick facts in a pathetic attempt to make some kind of obscure, feeble point.

Shoo demon!
Here are some more cherry-picked facts. Thomas Jefferson literally cut up his Bible with scissors, excising all the miracles, including Our Lord's ressurrection. Thomas Paine, the first man to use the phrase "the United States of America" in print, was asked on his deathbed to accept the fact that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. He replied, "I refuse to accept any such thing." George Washington attended church regularly but never, ever took communion. When reproached by a deacon for this practice, Washington... never attended church again.

I challenge you to find one single solitary example of a Founding Father or a signatory to the Constitution of the United States of America who believed in both of the following bedrock principles of true Christianity: baptism of the believer and eternal security. Try as you might, you won't find him. But on the other hand, ask me to name Founders and signatories who believed that Jesus was not Divine and/ or that everyone goes to Heaven? I could pour out names by the hatful.

Look: I wish that our country were founded on Christian principles- I wish it with all my heart. But it just wasn't. It's universally acknowleged in our day that the First Amendment permits blasphemy. Would you seriously contend that there is a "right" to blaspheme? That's absurd- no one has a "right" to disobey God. As this ridiculous left-of-Marx administration implodes, we have a unique opportunity to remake this nation on the principles of true Christianity. But pretending that it's already something that it patently ain't is unhelpful, to say the least.
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 12:15 PM

I don't think that Karl Marx was even born back in those days, friend. You aren't making much sense.

It is obvious that America is God's favorite country.

God wants us to be richly rewarded for our faith.

Quote:
2 Samuel 22:21
The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

2 Chronicles 15:7
Be ye strong therefore, and let not your hands be weak: for your work shall be rewarded.

Psalm 31:23
O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
The United States is the single most powerful and wealthy nation in the world. Jesus has been guiding us from day one, pal. He got this land back from the injuns who pre-stole it from us in the first place.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tom View Post
I challenge you to find one single solitary example of a Founding Father or a signatory to the Constitution of the United States of America who believed in both of the following bedrock principles of true Christianity: baptism of the believer and eternal security.
I don't usually feed the trolls, but a statement like that is just begging for retribution. So let's ask these founding fathers, in their own words.
John Adams:
Quote:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature.

Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion at all!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.

Jesus is benevolence personified, an example for all men. . . . The Christian religion, in its primitive purity and simplicity, I have entertained for more than sixty years. It is the religion of reason, equity, and love; it is the religion of the head and the heart.
Samuel Adams
Quote:
The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutions of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.

Principally, and first of all, I resign my soul to the Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying on the merits of Jesus Christ for the pardon of my sins.
Alexander Hamilton
Quote:
In my opinion, the present constitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banner bona fide must we combat our political foes, rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provided for amendments. By these general views of the subject have my reflections been guided. I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated "The Christian Constitutional Society," its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. second: The support of the United States.

I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.
Patrick Henry
Quote:
Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of the number; and indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long, and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast.

This is all the inheritance I give to my dear family. The religion of Christ will give them one which will make them rich indeed.
John Jay
Quote:
I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds. . . .
While in France . . . I do not recollect to have had more than two conversations with atheists about their tenets. The first was this: I was at a large party, of which were several of that description. They spoke freely and contemptuously of religion. I took no part in the conversation. In the course of it, one of them asked me if I believed in Christ? I answered that I did, and that I thanked God that I did.
George Washington
Quote:
Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

in and for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered upon the cross for me; for his sake, ease me of the burden of my sins, and give me grace that by the call of the Gospel I may rise from the slumber of sin into the newness of life.

Let me live according to those holy rules which thou hast this day prescribed in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object Jesus Christ the way, the truth and the life, bless O Lord, all the people of this land, from the highest to the lowest, particularly those whom thou has appointed to rule over us in church & state. continue thy goodness to me this night. These weak petitions I humbly implore thee to hear accept and ans. for the sake of thy Dear Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.
I could go on and on, but as you see this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Were some people like Thomas Jefferson Deists rather than True Christians™? Yes, and so what? God can and does use any leader for his purpose, even the most hated atheists or anti-Christians. Clearly a significant number of the founding fathers were Christian, and a majority believed in God and in the principles of a Godly nation.

Your history revisionist trash is just Satan's latest attempt to hijack the USA for his own sick ends. She is the last bastion of Godliness in the world, and she won't go down without a fight.


_
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Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
You describe these things as both as “patterns” and “unfortunate moments”, now I suggest they are one or the other, witchcraft fits perfectly your idea of patterns; patterns typical of the work of Satan.

You suggest that “occult craftwork” is something “that we can't see, prove or document” Yet I have given prime examples and you have given even more of witchcraft!

Do I really need to tell you that not being able to see, prove or document something, neither proves nor disproves its existence? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I agree, but existence of evidence is evidence of existence. And while Occam's Razor from a far-sighted, sweeping standpoint might offer support for the assertion that there is one cause (witchcraft) for all adverse phenomenon, a more cautious and itemized application of the same logical paradigm permits only one conclusion -- that things are caused by what seems to cause them. And that would be the things that we can see, document and prove.

Which would free up all sorts of time and energy squandered on punishing people, suspects, who didn't do anything wrong, wouldn't it?

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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post

( ...how does that work?....... )


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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella Abbey View Post
( ...how does that work?....... )


Like the Israelites going into Canaan. God promised that land to them, but a bunch of idol worshipping giants had the audacity to move there anyway. Try to thwart God, and suffer the consequences.
Joshua 1
Quote:
1Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,
2Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.
3Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.
4From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.
5There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.


_
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Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 05:30 PM

That's an impressive list of quotes. I showed them to a Roman Catholic, a Mormon, a Jehovah's Witness, and a Unitarian Universalist- they all liked them too, and asked me to extend their gratitude. Would you now care to respond to, like, what I actually said?

I challenge you to find one single solitary example of a Founding Father or a signatory to the Constitution of the United States of America who believed in both of the following bedrock principles of true Christianity: baptism of the believer and eternal security.

I acknowledged that Jay, Hamilton, and Adams may have been Christians, albeit very immature ones. George Washington did espouse Christianity, but he "went out from us" and died a Deist. Patrick Henry wasn't a founder or a signatory- in fact, he was an outspoken opponent of the Constitution.

Let me be perfectly clear: yes, we are a Christian people and, God willing, we'll defend that identity. However, this is in spite of our secular founders' intentions. Article VI, Section 3 of the Constitution reads,

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

This sentiment ought be alien to a Christian nation. If candidates for public office and the judiciary were first vetted by conservative true Christian pastors, would we be engaged in this manifestly absurd controversy over gay marriage? I think not...
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tom View Post
Let me be perfectly clear: yes, we are a Christian people and, God willing, we'll defend that identity. However, this is in spite of our secular founders' intentions. Article VI, Section 3 of the Constitution reads,

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
The intent of the founding fathers can be found in Amendment 2:
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
It wasn't to "protect government from religion", quite the opposite -- it was to protect religious freedom from government interference, and to prevent an official STATE religion like the Anglican Church. The intent of the founding fathers can also been seen with their copious references to God in the federalist papers and the Declaration of Independence.

We are a government of the people, by the people and for the people. yet when the people exercise their Godly and lawful rights to legislate a prohibition against gay marriage, history revisionists twist the original intent of freedom of religion into "freedom from religion" to promote all sorts of heinous "lifestyle choices" and block said legislation.

You guys dream of some sort of godless state and fantasize that the founding fathers felt the same. Too bad for you, that is not the case. They intended to establish a Godly state and to protect it from heathen and godless scum. And their intent succeeded for a long time, until it started getting chipped away bit by bit. And now you try to pull the coup de grâce, and claim that godlessness was the intent all along. Nice try, but you are not there yet. Try again after the rapture.


_
_

Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Goldman View Post
The intent of the founding fathers can be found in Amendment 2:

It wasn't to "protect government from religion", quite the opposite -- it was to protect religious freedom from government interference, and to prevent an official STATE religion like the Anglican Church.
It was both, obviously.

Quote:
The intent of the founding fathers can also been seen with their copious references to God in the federalist papers and the Declaration of Independence.
A lot of God-talk (like the quotes you posted above) is all well and good, but by and large they didn't know the Lord. That would explain the Deism and the Universalism and the denying-Christ-on-your-deathbed stuff.

Quote:
We are a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
What people? May I remind you who sits in the White House and occupies the Chair of the Speaker of the House of Representatives?

Quote:
Yet when the people exercise their Godly and lawful rights to legislate a prohibition against gay marriage, history revisionists twist the original intent of freedom of religion into "freedom from religion" to promote all sorts of heinous "lifestyle choices" and block said legislation.
Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian. This is not revisionism. The Constitution forbids lawful authorities from preventing Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses from proselytizing. This is not revisionism. The problem is not philosophical differences over the courts' role in the gay marriage debate. The problem is the fact that the matter is even open to discussion. However "Godly" you believe the Constitution to be, it's not Godly enough, obviously. Mr. Goldman: it's a political document. That's all. It isn't sacred. It's OK to critique it and even want it amended (or ripped out, root and branch).

Quote:
You guys dream of some sort of godless state and fantasize that the founding fathers felt the same. Too bad for you, that is not the case.
Are you looking through some sort of dimensional rift and reading posts by Bizzarro Old Tom? None of the founders or signatories were atheists. Of course their political ideas were driven by their religious beliefs. It's just that their beliefs were wrong, you see, so their ideas were out of whack.

Quote:
They intended to establish a Godly state and to protect it from heathen...
Sir: for the most part, they were heathens themselves...

Quote:
and godless scum. And their intent succeeded for a long time, until it started getting chipped away bit by bit.
It's really a shame that I don't have time to do this justice, but I disagree. As I've said, we're a Christian people, although you wouldn't guess it from watching prime time television. American culture was quite shockingly Godless from the time of the Revolution until the 1820's. There was quite a dip which began in the 1890's and lasted a couple of decades. And of course, our current slump began about 45 years ago. Holiness comes and goes, here and there, in fits and starts. When it comes, it's always in spite of, never because of, our government.

Quote:
And now you try to pull the coup de grâce, and claim that godlessness was the intent all along. Nice try, but you are not there yet. Try again after the rapture.
There's that Bizzarro Old Tom again. This one won't be here after the Rapture, thank God. I think I see your problem, though. Our culture is wildly subjectivist and you're letting it seep in. Iran is a "Godly" nation, except the God is false. Still, they don't have these discussions because their revolutionary constitution makes the state's role as protecter of religion clear. That's what I'd like, but comparing me with Islamist revolutionaries is a subjectivist false equivalency. Objectively speaking, we are right: Evangelical Christianity is the true revealed religion, and should be so treated at both the individual and state level. I strongly believe that, in this nation where anti-Darwinism polls at over 50% despite the leading way in which the questions are posed, I speak for a substantive majority.

The Constitution of the United States of America is an un-American document. It should be scrapped.
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Default Re: Salem 1692 God's will was done. Then what happened? Liberals! - 08-31-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tom View Post
The Constitution of the United States of America is an un-American document. It should be scrapped.
Well on that we can agree. And there is a candidate that can do just that: Mike Huckabee:
Quote:
"[Some of my opponents] do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards,"
It is either that, or start from scratch with a constitutional convention. I'm game for either one.


_
_

Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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