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Creation Science The origins of life and the earth from a creationist (Biblical) perspective.

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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 02:15 AM

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Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
For the impartial, yes. For Christians, also yes, with the Bible being the truth. For secular people, yes as well, the truth is found through logical reasoning and experimentation.

So it depends on which viewpoint you have, rather than the truth, as people's views of the truth is are different. When trying to get the secular to reject evolution, you must either change their views of what the truth is or attempt to disprove evolution logically, the latter of which is what this thread is meant to do. This approach is extremely difficult, as no one has yet to point out logically why evolution is wrong.

But what you believe to be true, is not necessarily true. If you believe you can walk on water and jump out of a boat, no matter how much you BELIEVE you can walk on water, you're going to drown.

Now if you have faith that JESUS can give you the ability to walk on water, then you've got a chance. But that faith better be unwavering.

Matthew 14:25-31 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 02:18 AM

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Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
For the impartial, yes. For Christians, also yes, with the Bible being the truth. For secular people, yes as well, the truth is found through logical reasoning and experimentation.
The truth isn't relative, dear. It exists the way it is. Not every road leads to Rome, as they say.

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Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
So it depends on which viewpoint you have, rather than the truth, as people's views of the truth is are different. When trying to get the secular to reject evolution, you must either change their views of what the truth is or attempt to disprove evolution logically, the latter of which is what this thread is meant to do. This approach is extremely difficult, as no one has yet to point out logically why evolution is wrong.
No one has to. It's self-evident. The burden of proof is upon you because you are making the outrageous claim that our great-great-great grandparents had tails.



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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 02:32 AM

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Originally Posted by BelieverInGod View Post
But kangaroos go "upright" and they still have their tails. I'm not kidding, a tail would come in very handy. You want to see something with a useless tail, look at the peacock.
A kangaroo's tail still has a primary function, maintaining balance, with which it could not survive. A peacock's tail is used for reproduction; the more attractive(big) the tail is, the more likely it is to find a mate.

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Okay, then what about wisdom teeth? Why would we evolve wisdom teeth? Also, even a horses teeth are sharper than ours (ever been bitten by one of those things?)
Wisdom teeth are vestigial organs, like the remaining coccyx. They were once useful, now, not so much. And no, I have never been bitten by a horse.

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Okay, so you say brains gave us the evolutionary advantage, and then scientists tell us that apes and whales are just as smart as we are. If this is true, then where is the "evolutionary advantage"?
I had to look that one up, never heard about that before. It seems like scientists are simply speculating about whale intelligence, stating that they may be as smart or that they might think in a different way than humans do. I'd also like to point out that a human's hands, capable of all sorts of manipulation, work extremely well with the human brain.

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Also, brains doesn't seem all that useful when being chased down by a lion or a pack of wolves. Some extra speed or some claws would be very handy.
Brains are useful in this situation. They created weapons to fight back at lions, and the ability to cooperate and communicate with other humans in bringing lions down. They could also think of ways to distract or evade the lion. Some extra speed would be handy, but the slower humans obviously survived and reproduced just as well.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 02:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
A kangaroo's tail still has a primary function, maintaining balance, with which it could not survive. A peacock's tail is used for reproduction; the more attractive(big) the tail is, the more likely it is to find a mate.
All I'm saying is that a tail would be useful, and I can't see why evolution would make us give it up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
Wisdom teeth are vestigial organs, like the remaining coccyx. They were once useful, now, not so much. And no, I have never been bitten by a horse.
Well, as "pure vegetarians" those front teeth are VERY sharp. Meanwhile, human teeth fall out, my father had false teeth by the age of 18. As for wisdom teeth being vestigial, why do we have all of these vestigial organs? You'd think that evolution would do away with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
I had to look that one up, never heard about that before. It seems like scientists are simply speculating about whale intelligence, stating that they may be as smart or that they might think in a different way than humans do. I'd also like to point out that a human's hands, capable of all sorts of manipulation, work extremely well with the human brain.
Well I know the California and Canadian biologists want apes and whales declared "non-human persons" which seems to mean that they'll have all the rights of being human, but none of the responsibilities. For example, we can't kill them, but they can kill us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
Brains are useful in this situation. They created weapons to fight back at lions, and the ability to cooperate and communicate with other humans in bringing lions down. They could also think of ways to distract or evade the lion. Some extra speed would be handy, but the slower humans obviously survived and reproduced just as well.
But so many people shut down and go blank in a panic situation. Also, this seems to imply a pretty fast leap at getting a brain, since if we were our weak little upstanding selves without developing the brains, we'd be food.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 03:19 AM

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Originally Posted by BelieverInGod View Post
All I'm saying is that a tail would be useful, and I can't see why evolution would make us give it up.
Well, somewhere along the line, far before us homo sapiens came along, hominids must have lost the need for it.

Quote:
Well, as "pure vegetarians" those front teeth are VERY sharp. Meanwhile, human teeth fall out, my father had false teeth by the age of 18. As for wisdom teeth being vestigial, why do we have all of these vestigial organs? You'd think that evolution would do away with them.
Reasonable assumption, but vestigial organs sometimes serve small secondary functions, and we are still in the evolutionary process, so some remnants have not had time to evolve out of our bodies.

Quote:
Well I know the California and Canadian biologists want apes and whales declared "non-human persons" which seems to mean that they'll have all the rights of being human, but none of the responsibilities. For example, we can't kill them, but they can kill us.
Okay.. that's interesting. The rights of a human thing is a little off, but I don't think humans should feel that apes and whales are a threat, as it is far more likely that a human will kill another human.

Quote:
But so many people shut down and go blank in a panic situation. Also, this seems to imply a pretty fast leap at getting a brain, since if we were our weak little upstanding selves without developing the brains, we'd be food.
I believe that's part of the fight or flight response, and, I don't know the details, but the brain attempts to deal with stress during those situations.

The leap to getting a brain was slow, very slow. The smarter humans, ones who could look for food and reproduce well without becoming food, had a greater chance of survival. Genes are inherited, and the smarter humans had a greater chance of passing on their genes, while the less gifted did not. This happens over and over until we get to smart modern humans.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 04:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
Well, somewhere along the line, far before us homo sapiens came along, hominids must have lost the need for it.
You're not listening, dear. BelieverInGod is telling you that a busy human mother would never have lost the need for a tail. If evolution were true, a useful tail would be proof enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
Reasonable assumption, but vestigial organs sometimes serve small secondary functions, and we are still in the evolutionary process, so some remnants have not had time to evolve out of our bodies.
So teeth, which are plentiful, hang around unnecessarily, but tails, which would come in so handily, "evolved out"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
Okay.. that's interesting. The rights of a human thing is a little off, but I don't think humans should feel that apes and whales are a threat, as it is far more likely that a human will kill another human.
Have you ever seen apes attack humans? They're relentless!



Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
I believe that's part of the fight or flight response, and, I don't know the details, but the brain attempts to deal with stress during those situations.

The leap to getting a brain was slow, very slow. The smarter humans, ones who could look for food and reproduce well without becoming food, had a greater chance of survival. Genes are inherited, and the smarter humans had a greater chance of passing on their genes, while the less gifted did not. This happens over and over until we get to smart modern humans.
But not smart enough to keep the darn tail!

You are pulling our chain, son!



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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 04:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda View Post
You're not listening, dear. BelieverInGod is telling you that a busy human mother would never have lost the need for a tail. If evolution were true, a useful tail would be proof enough.
Well, sadly, while a tail for the modern human may be useful, they are not necessary for survival.

Quote:
So teeth, which are plentiful, hang around unnecessarily, but tails, which would come in so handily, "evolved out"?
Wisdom teeth were actually useful far longer in the human evolutionary line than tails were. Also, tails are still hanging around, though they've been reduced to only the coccyx.

Quote:
Have you ever seen apes attack humans? They're relentless!

They are. But we have cages, tranquilizers, guns, and training to ensure that it doesn't happen. I like the animation, it's funny.


Quote:
But not smart enough to keep the darn tail!

You are pulling our chain, son!
Well.. they didn't and don't really get to choose what to keep.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 04:30 AM

Somehow I don't think these guys think 'ape attacks' are so funny anymore.



And I've got to repeat myself with the peacocks tail and me having a tail. I think that a mother having a tail would be much more evolutionary advantage than something that just looks pretty but gets you in trouble. I mean, tigers seem to appreciate that tail, since it makes the peacock easier to catch, but I don't think that helps your point.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 04:47 AM

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Originally Posted by BelieverInGod View Post
Somehow I don't think these guys think 'ape attacks' are so funny anymore.



And I've got to repeat myself with the peacocks tail and me having a tail. I think that a mother having a tail would be much more evolutionary advantage than something that just looks pretty but gets you in trouble. I mean, tigers seem to appreciate that tail, since it makes the peacock easier to catch, but I don't think that helps your point.
That's one crazy video. Wow.

Anyways, I don't think I was very clear on the whole peacock deal.

Here's how it works out.
There are a variety of peacocks. Some peacocks have amazing tails, others not so much. Predators spot the big colorful tails and eat the peacocks with those tails. They also eat the ones with less attractive tails, though not as frequently. The less attractive peacocks would be able to pass on their genes more frequently, when considering only this factor.

On the other hand, peacocks with huge tails are a sign of good genes/health to peahens. Peahens choose these peacocks to mate with more frequently than with the less colorful peacocks. The colorful peacocks are able to pass on their genes more frequently in this case.

So as you can see, these two factors, as well as many others, determines which peacocks survive and pass on their genes and which do not. Now we have to ask: which factors are more dominant? These factors are the ones that will determine which evolutionary path the animal takes. In the case of peacock, the factors favor colorful tails more than plainer ones, therefore, peacocks retain their colorful tails.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 04:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post

Here's how it works out.
There are a variety of peacocks. Some peacocks have amazing tails, others not so much. Predators spot the big colorful tails and eat the peacocks with those tails. They also eat the ones with less attractive tails, though not as frequently. The less attractive peacocks would be able to pass on their genes more frequently, when considering only this factor.

On the other hand, peacocks with huge tails are a sign of good genes/health to peahens. Peahens choose these peacocks to mate with more frequently than with the less colorful peacocks. The colorful peacocks are able to pass on their genes more frequently in this case.

So as you can see, these two factors, as well as many others, determines which peacocks survive and pass on their genes and which do not. Now we have to ask: which factors are more dominant? These factors are the ones that will determine which evolutionary path the animal takes. In the case of peacock, the factors favor colorful tails more than plainer ones, therefore, peacocks retain their colorful tails.
What a boring story about a bunch of dumb birds. Who cares? This is a Christian forum. Talk about Jess or piss off.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 04:56 AM

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Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
That's one crazy video. Wow.

Anyways, I don't think I was very clear on the whole peacock deal.

Here's how it works out.
There are a variety of peacocks. Some peacocks have amazing tails, others not so much. Predators spot the big colorful tails and eat the peacocks with those tails. They also eat the ones with less attractive tails, though not as frequently. The less attractive peacocks would be able to pass on their genes more frequently, when considering only this factor.

On the other hand, peacocks with huge tails are a sign of good genes/health to peahens. Peahens choose these peacocks to mate with more frequently than with the less colorful peacocks. The colorful peacocks are able to pass on their genes more frequently in this case.

So as you can see, these two factors, as well as many others, determines which peacocks survive and pass on their genes and which do not. Now we have to ask: which factors are more dominant? These factors are the ones that will determine which evolutionary path the animal takes. In the case of peacock, the factors favor colorful tails more than plainer ones, therefore, peacocks retain their colorful tails.
And we're going in circles here (BTW, tigers don't see the tails, they grab the birds by the tail, so a definite a disadvantage). It just makes so much more sense that God created peacocks for his own reason and they fit into his divine clockwork which is the earth.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 05:02 AM

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Originally Posted by BelieverInGod View Post
And we're going in circles here (BTW, tigers don't see the tails, they grab the birds by the tail, so a definite a disadvantage). It just makes so much more sense that God created peacocks for his own reason and they fit into his divine clockwork which is the earth.
Interesting. I assumed it was both, but it would still work the same way.

Circles indeed.

And Pastor Zeke, the thread invites us to answer these questions, which is why I have.


1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23:Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 05:50 AM

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Originally Posted by BelieverInGod View Post
It just makes so much more sense that God created peacocks for his own reason and they fit into his divine clockwork which is the earth.
Indeed. When we can't understand His ways, we may yet rejoice in His promises.

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Isn't God just so awesome?


II Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power



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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 06:02 AM

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Originally Posted by Jedediah View Post
Indeed. When we can't understand His ways, we may yet rejoice in His promises.

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Isn't God just so awesome?
Amen Brother, and the last 5 chapters of Job are so humbling....

Job 38:4-6 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

38:31-33 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

39:9-12 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him? Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?

Oohhh..... talking about peacocks....

39:13Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks? or wings and feathers unto the ostrich?

PRAISE JESUS, HE HAS SENT ME THE EXACT SCRIPTURE

Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.


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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 06:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Jedediah View Post
Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Interesting part. Wouldn't this make God mysterious to humans, as I mentioned in other threads? His thoughts are higher, so we cannot think as God does, but only know what is in the Bible.


1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23:Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-25-2013, 07:47 AM

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Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
Yes, evolution has logical answers supported by evidence, for all that it applies to.
Which seems to be in deliberately contradicting the wonder of God's creation of Adam in His own image. It's hateful and you should stop upsetting children.



Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Join me in scoffing at backwards Muslims clinging to their beliefs in the face of the evidence!
The truth about volcanos
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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-26-2013, 01:19 AM

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Originally Posted by Redeemed Papist View Post
Which seems to be in deliberately contradicting the wonder of God's creation of Adam in His own image. It's hateful and you should stop upsetting children.
Yes, it does contradict with the teachings of the Bible.

The point is, evolutionists cannot be swayed from their theory unless you get them to believe the bible or you manage to find a way to disprove their theory while conforming to their idea that the bible is not true. I believe we should stick to the latter since we are discussing the flaws within evolution, not the contradictions between evolution and the Bible.


1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23:Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-26-2013, 01:55 AM

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Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
The point is, evolutionists cannot be swayed from their theory unless you get them to believe the bible or you manage to find a way to disprove their theory while conforming to their idea that the bible is not true.
I've made a covenant with God that I will spend my life seeking His face and promulgating His gospel to everyone I encounter in this meaningless, temporary existence. My reward awaits in Heaven, but you seem more than eager to squander whatever spiritual fruits you possess on placating the secular elites. How exactly do you expect that strategy to pan out when you are held to account for yourself on the day of judgment? Here's some Scripture for you to chew on.

Matthew 10:32-24
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Romans 12:2

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


II Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power



The man who is being progressively sanctified will inescapably sanctify his home, school, politics, economics, science, and all things else by understanding and interpreting all things in terms of the Word of God and by bringing all things under the Dominion of Christ the King. -R.J. Rushdoony
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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-26-2013, 02:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Jedediah View Post
I've made a covenant with God that I will spend my life seeking His face and promulgating His gospel to everyone I encounter in this meaningless, temporary existence. My reward awaits in Heaven, but you seem more than eager to squander whatever spiritual fruits you possess on placating the secular elites. How exactly do you expect that strategy to pan out when you are held to account for yourself on the day of judgment? Here's some Scripture for you to chew on.
I am pointing out two ways in which you can get evolutionists to dispose of their non-biblical theory. The entire sentence is connected. It is either change their underlying beliefs or disprove evolution while maintaining their underlying beliefs. The latter of which may then change their underlying beliefs, once evolution is disproved and they have nothing else to turn to.


1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23:Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
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Default Re: Questions that evolutionist can’t answer - 01-26-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandJob View Post
Yes, it does contradict with the teachings of the Bible.

The point is, evolutionists cannot be swayed from their theory unless you get them to believe the bible or you manage to find a way to disprove their theory while conforming to their idea that the bible is not true. I believe we should stick to the latter since we are discussing the flaws within evolution, not the contradictions between evolution and the Bible.
You say a lot of words in order to say nothing at all, don't you! It comes down to what is true and what is false. And the Bible is true or it wouldn't say so in the Bible.



Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

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