[Please Flush Me]

Originally Posted by Didymus Much

Yes, passive aggressive, and you are hardly the first. There's a book you should read by the master of the subject: link.



As long as the moderators decide to tolerate you, before exercising their rights.

Well then he should have put "passive" in front if that what he meant. I'm not sure if you know, but there's this thing in English where putting a word before another can change the meaning, sometimes slightly, sometimes drastically. It truly is magical


Oh no! I'm so scared!


What do you think they'll do to me?


Actually... how will they do anything to me? there's an entire ocean between us. Plus there's the matter of finding me... and then there are these pesky things called laws... oh well

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Please Save Me

Oh no! I'm so scared!


What do you think they'll do to me?


Actually... how will they do anything to me? there's an entire ocean between us. Plus there's the matter of finding me... and then there are these pesky things called laws... oh well

You sound paranoid, friend. We've got no interest in harming your person or vandalizing your possessions. Why would we? We want what's best for you. We want you to know your options. We want you understand what's in store for you. It's not us you need to fear, dear. Fear the One who can take everything that's dear to you, twist it inside out, turn it against you, submit it to torment, and then damn your pitiful soul to Hell for all eternity (Matthew 10:28). We won't hurt you. We'll just watch and praise Him, and laugh and laugh and laugh (Psalm 2:4).

[Please Flush Me]

Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda

Fear the One who can take everything that's dear to you, twist it inside out, turn it against you, submit it to torment, and then damn your pitiful soul to Hell for all eternity (Matthew 10:28).

So no different to what the anxiety and the depression do already? That doesn't seem so bad. I've survived this long, I think I can hold out.


Oooh, think they'll let me into Nirvana?

[Please Flush Me]

Ah damn, I screwed up. I was actually asking if they'd let me into Valhalla. Seems more pleasing than Heaven

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by Please Flush Me

Seriously? They found HUMAN REMAINS that they were able to date back 40,000 years. You know, through actual, scientific methods?

Oh, but I forgot, that's not really your sort of thing, is it?

Okay then, what about the cave art that predates written word? You do know that's a thing, right?

Dear Sinner,

Are you actually taking the preposterous claims of atheist geologist at face value? Dating methods are notoriously unreliable, and people who have actually acquired some proper education (both in natural sciences AND in Bible studies) have determined that as these alleged dates conflict with the Bible, they must be discarded.

Such dating methods are based on assumptions that cannot be proven. In the case of carbon-14 dating, one such assumption is that the plants buried in strata deep in the geologic record had the same ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 as those today. However, there is no way to know if the production and atmospheric concentration of carbon-14 were the same when those plants were buried.

All people, including Austrian Aborigines, are descended from Noah’s family. After God confused the languages of people at the Tower of Babel, in the years following the global Flood of about 2350 BC, groups of people dispersed through the world. [I told you so previously] Each group surely possessed knowledge of some current technology in addition to their new language. Thus, we expect to see evidence of intelligent people scattered all over the world, including these paintings in Narwala Gabarnmang...

As you can see, your claim collapses totally when it is considered against the background of Biblical proof. Furthermore, I must ask you if you were there when these cave paintings were made! Were you there? Again, all the so-called evidence is just hearsay and not of the same quality as eyewitness accounts.

We have an eyewitness account. God was there.

The atheist scholars have been deceived. They chose to disobey God and, as a result, God continues to bombard them with false information. As an omnipotent being (Revelation 19:6), it is also an easy task for God to provide the tellyscopes and Geiger Counters with delusional data. The only way to see the World as it Really is is to Repent and follow Jesus. Otherwise, the result will be as follows:

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Please Flush Me]

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

As you can see, your claim collapses totally when it is considered against the background of Biblical proof. Furthermore, I must ask you if you were there when these cave paintings were made! Were you there? Again, all the so-called evidence is just hearsay and not of the same quality as eyewitness accounts.

We have an eyewitness account. God was there.

Your eyewitness account is a being that no one has never seen, let alone captured proof of existing, so the way I see it, it is your claim that collapses, especially when held against the multitude of physical proof available.


You ask me if I was there when the cave painting where made, so I find myself having to ask, where you there when the Bible was written? Who's to say that it wasn't just the ramblings of a man suffering from delusions?

[Brother Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by Please Flush Me

Your eyewitness account is a being that no one has never seen, let alone captured proof of existing, so the way I see it, it is your claim that collapses, especially when held against the multitude of physical proof available.


You ask me if I was there when the cave painting where made, so I find myself having to ask, where you there when the Bible was written? Who's to say that it wasn't just the ramblings of a man suffering from delusions?

He was not there, but Moses was there. Can you name one of the magical 40,000 year old cave painters? I guess not.


By the way, it shows that your father did not hit you with the rod. It shows very clearly.


People, take this as an example of what happens if you don't hit your children hard as told in the Bible:


Proverbs 13:2 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

I will hit mine now, coming back in 15 minutes.

[Please Flush Me]

Originally Posted by Brother Gonzalez

He was not there, but Moses was there. Can you name one of the magical 40,000 year old cave painters? I guess not.


By the way, it shows that your father did not hit you with the rod. It shows very clearly.

I don't know the names they once held, but the Mungo Man and Mungo Woman were there roughly 40000 years ago, but oh wait, apparently hard, scientific evidence is inferior to word of a guy that was probably high as all hell.


Oh dear, your kids must absolutely loath you. I look forward to the day they get sick of you abusing them. I wonder how they'll retaliate?

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by Please Flush Me

...Oh dear, your kids must absolutely loath you. I look forward to the day they get sick of you abusing them. I wonder how they'll retaliate?

Out of arguments, so here come the ad hominems and other fallacies.

[Mrs. Smith]

It's so blatantly obvious- asexuals and homosexuals are both equally sinners. You are not making children. It's as easy as that.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Please Flush Me

Your eyewitness account is a being that no one has never seen, let alone captured proof of existing, so the way I see it, it is your claim that collapses, especially when held against the multitude of physical proof available.

You're confused, dear. No doubt the blood pulsing in your cooter has left your brain starved. The "being that no one has ever seen" is in fact a being who has been seen, heard, and felt for thousands of years. Why, I just talked to Him this morning, and He assured me He loves me!

Originally Posted by Mrs. Smith

It's so blatantly obvious- asexuals and homosexuals are both equally sinners. You are not making children. It's as easy as that.

It's been so long since a visitor has spoken sense, I feared maybe we were the last! Welcome to the forums, dear.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by Didymus Much

Out of arguments, so here come the ad hominems and other fallacies.

Non-brother Didymus, you make too much sense for an atheist. Could you open a debate school for your fellow atheists? They come weaker and weaker.


This is the cycle of argumentation of the weak atheist:

1. They did not read the Bible, but they attack our beliefs.
2. They use the same tired arguments over and over.
3. They loose the arguments out of being unprepared, just before the actual argument can start.
4. We remain Christians and our faith is strengthened.

Of course I welcome them! They bless us with their weak persecutions. But from time to time, I would like some real challenge.

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by Please Flush Me

Oh dear, your kids must absolutely loath you. I look forward to the day they get sick of you abusing them. I wonder how they'll retaliate?

Dear Sinner,

Of course they hate us! Jesus has told us to hold no positive emotional attachments towards our parents. In fact, He demands that we spare our Love to Him and to our Brethren!

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Obviously, this does not exclude polite behavior!

Matthew 15:4
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

This hate is required from Believers to gain a ticket to Heaven. However, once there, it will be OK and we'll have Happiness for Eternity!

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Sinners fail to understand that the task of following all the commandments is only temporary but Heaven or Hell are for ever!


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Princess L]

Originally Posted by Basilissa

Of course he doesn't. Brother Unbridgeable only pays attention to the Word of God.

My arguments are not logical; God hates logic:

1 Corinthians 3:19: For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

1 Corinthians 8:2-3: And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

1 Corinthians 13:8: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

I simply repeat what the Bible says, without thinking too much whether what the Bible says is logical, ethical, etc. Too much thinking about the logic and ethics of the Holy Bible could turn you into a filthy atheist.

I do await your response, though.

(My apologizes, my homework and job have been ridiculously time consuming)

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how those verses imply that God hates logic. I wholeheartedly agree that the wisdom of this world is as fleeting as shadows, however I believe that God gave us minds with the capacity for logical thought so that we could understand his word in order to better worship him.

The original discussion was that asexuality is wrong because of a verse that, taken in questionable context, seems to say that women must be saved through childbirth (which I always thought was a more metaphorical description of the atonement of Eve's sin through the eventual birth of Jesus Christ). I would like to sum up my argument against that verse, which implies that a work is necessary for salvation, by reiterating a much clearer verse. In Romans 8, Paul clearly says that salvation is not through works, so that none can boast. Make no mistake, I do in fact believe that works are a foundational aspect of Christian life. However, good works are outward actions that even unsaved are capable of. It is simple reasoning then that salvation could not be based on earthly works, which both Christian and heathen can do, but solely on personal faith in God, and believe that transforms the heart. For if the heart is changed by the Holy Spirit, then of course good earthly works will inevitably follow.

I know that we likely won't agree on this, but I thought of a way we could respectfully disagree, but still find some common ground. You were too quick to judge aces like myself, we actually have a fair amount in common. Firstly, I noticed you're big on rejecting pleasure from sex and condemning masturbation and pornography. Believe it or not, most aces, myself included, actually agree with you in regards to that. The vast majority of of find the thought of sexual pleasure to be uncomfortable, and the concepts of masturbation and pornography to be disgusting. It may even surprise you to learn that many of us also loathe Valentine's day. I myself happen also to be, like quite a few aces, aromantic (aro for short), meaning that I care not for melodramatic and over-sexualized celebrations of romance like Valentine's day.

I know we'll likely still disagree on something, but I just wanted to ask you to give us a chance: there's no reason to make a group of quirky but mostly shy people your enemies when they actually agree with you on quite a bit.

[Princess L]

Oh, I should also mention that it's actually incorrect to lump us in with the LGTBQ crowd. Shocking as this may sound, they're actually one of the biggest sources of hatred toward aces. Mostly it's because they try to claim that we don't really exist and we're "just gays who don't want to admit it". It's incredibly annoying.

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by Princess L

(My apologizes, my homework and job have been ridiculously time consuming)

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how those verses imply that God hates logic. I wholeheartedly agree that the wisdom of this world is as fleeting as shadows, however I believe that God gave us minds with the capacity for logical thought so that we could understand his word in order to better worship him.

The original discussion was that asexuality is wrong because of a verse that, taken in questionable context, seems to say that women must be saved through childbirth (which I always thought was a more metaphorical description of the atonement of Eve's sin through the eventual birth of Jesus Christ). I would like to sum up my argument against that verse, which implies that a work is necessary for salvation, by reiterating a much clearer verse. In Romans 8, Paul clearly says that salvation is not through works, so that none can boast. Make no mistake, I do in fact believe that works are a foundational aspect of Christian life. However, good works are outward actions that even unsaved are capable of. It is simple reasoning then that salvation could not be based on earthly works, which both Christian and heathen can do, but solely on personal faith in God, and believe that transforms the heart. For if the heart is changed by the Holy Spirit, then of course good earthly works will inevitably follow.

I know that we likely won't agree on this, but I thought of a way we could respectfully disagree, but still find some common ground. You were too quick to judge aces like myself, we actually have a fair amount in common. Firstly, I noticed you're big on rejecting pleasure from sex and condemning masturbation and pornography. Believe it or not, most aces, myself included, actually agree with you in regards to that. The vast majority of of find the thought of sexual pleasure to be uncomfortable, and the concepts of masturbation and pornography to be disgusting. It may even surprise you to learn that many of us also loathe Valentine's day. I myself happen also to be, like quite a few aces, aromantic (aro for short), meaning that I care not for melodramatic and over-sexualized celebrations of romance like Valentine's day.

I know we'll likely still disagree on something, but I just wanted to ask you to give us a chance: there's no reason to make a group of quirky but mostly shy people your enemies when they actually agree with you on quite a bit.

It is so wonderful that you're back! This means that you're still quenching the Word of God in its pure form, the form that we as True Christians™ can provide! Now, on to your assertions:

I believe that God gave us minds with the capacity for logical thought so that we could understand his word in order to better worship him.

There is nothing complex about God's Word! It is plain and simple and only through scholastic logic has that been tainted into many false cults, such as Catholicism. Let's consider logic! God's Creation is good (Genesis 1:4; Genesis 1:10; Genesis 1:12), but that does not mean that it would be logically comprehensible to us, especially after the Fall (Genesis 3:6).

Isaiah 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

His ways are not our ways! If the world were logical and rational, atheist science would reign supreme, but we know that it is badly deficient because it disregards the Redeeming Work of Jesus Christ.

An example: Miracles. Do you deny them? Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead and passed these gifts on to His Apostles (Luke 9:2). Miracles occur unexpectedly and they bread down the nice chain of cause and effect that the atheist scientists try to unravel. Because only Jesus knows our molecular and Spiritual structure in its Planck distance detail (Psalms 139:2), we can never be able to predict just when and on whom will the next miracle strike. These supernatural interventions directly deny the rationality of the Created World. In fact, as True Christians™ we must always take into consideration the possibility of even the tiniest occurrence being the result of God's Merciful (Jonah 4:2) or wanton (Job 1:12) handiwork. It is impossible to understand a world like this with logic, it is to be understood with Faith and Obedience (Ecclesiastes 12:13). God's Ways are NOT our ways!

...salvation could not be based on earthly works, which both Christian and heathen can do, but solely on personal faith in God, and believe that transforms the heart.

Of course it is not based solely on works! No-one would claim that. The wonderful Epistles of Paul that you mentioned are the living proof of that! However, that is no reason to dismiss other parts of the Bible. If you had been able to transcend your preconceptions, you would have considered alternative hypotheses based on the actual Bible. Let us take the story of Abraham and Isaac. Paul takes it as irrefutable proof of Salvation through Faith™:

Romans 4:2-3
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Similarly, James tackles the issue of Abraham and Isaac in His wonderful Epistle:

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

And Jesus Himself will consider the Works of each and every one of us in due course!

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

For the false Christian this is self-contradictory and so he dismisses the part that he likes less. For instance, Mr. Luther, the papist-in-protestant-disguise, tried to remove James and Revelation among others from the Bible (Jesus Christ! He never got to Revelation 22:19, did he?). That won't work. You have to look past these apparent contradictions NOT with logic (here we go again) but with Faith™! Trust God! Salvation comes only through Faith®. Salvation comes through Works®. Logic says this is impossible but God can do Miracles (Revelation 19:6) that are by definition impossible and irrational. The scholastics and their useless followers (just look at Barth, Pannenberg, McGrath etc. etc.) try to say that God only can do things that are "logical". Hence, they deny miracles.


SUMMARY

Works: what to think about them!
1. The nature of a deed within the good-evil axis is determined not by the content of an action but by the person doing the action!

Psalms 53:1
(To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David.) The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

If you fail to have Faith™, all your actions are evil. If you as an atheist save a child from being eaten alive by vultures, it is evil in the Master Plan of Jesus, it causes consequences that are contrary to the agenda of Jesus. However, Saved persons do only good things (you were very close to this conclusion, points for that!).

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Again, this seems contradictory IF you follow secular logic. It's the same with being Saved through childbirth only. With "rational" logic you try to twist it into something that you like, which by definition shows that you are not yet one with Jesus.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Princess L

I know we'll likely still disagree on something, but I just wanted to ask you to give us a chance: there's no reason to make a group of quirky but mostly shy people your enemies when they actually agree with you on quite a bit.

Sorry dear, but the LORD is quite clear on that. From the very beginning, when the LORD first nurtured the Israelites and brought them under His mantle of protection, He declared that unbelievers and those who defy His Ways are evil and are to be avoided at all costs (even unto death).

The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 17:7

Jesus tells us not to waste time with those who refuse to capitulate to His Will. People like you are worse than swine, not to be trusted lest you take advantage of our good and humble nature.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matthew 7:6

We are compelled to recognize the sinner and shun him. The sinner is he who refuses to do as God commands (like having many children).

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Romans 16:17

It would not only be foolish of us to give you a chance, but it may be dangerous as it could very well impact our eternal fate. And you respect our beliefs enough to not interfere with our God-given right to judge you, right?

[Princess L]

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

It is so wonderful that you're back! This means that you're still quenching the Word of God in its pure form, the form that we as True Christians™ can provide! Now, on to your assertions:
There is nothing complex about God's Word! It is plain and simple and only through scholastic logic has that been tainted into many false cults, such as Catholicism. Let's consider logic! God's Creation is good (Genesis 1:4; Genesis 1:10; Genesis 1:12), but that does not mean that it would be logically comprehensible to us, especially after the Fall (Genesis 3:6).

Isaiah 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

His ways are not our ways! If the world were logical and rational, atheist science would reign supreme, but we know that it is badly deficient because it disregards the Redeeming Work of Jesus Christ.

Again, I believe you've twisted the meaning of this verse a bit. This verse does not talk about common logic and reasoning, but more so of our plans and designs for the future. It is a reminder that, quite correctly, what God knows is best for us isn't often what we expect. It is through God doing the unexpected that we then use our logic and reasoning to understand Him better, and to grow in our love and admiration of Him.

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

An example: Miracles. Do you deny them? Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead and passed these gifts on to His Apostles (Luke 9:2). Miracles occur unexpectedly and they bread down the nice chain of cause and effect that the atheist scientists try to unravel. Because only Jesus knows our molecular and Spiritual structure in its Planck distance detail (Psalms 139:2), we can never be able to predict just when and on whom will the next miracle strike. These supernatural interventions directly deny the rationality of the Created World. In fact, as True Christians™ we must always take into consideration the possibility of even the tiniest occurrence being the result of God's Merciful (Jonah 4:2) or wanton (Job 1:12) handiwork. It is impossible to understand a world like this with logic, it is to be understood with Faith and Obedience (Ecclesiastes 12:13). God's Ways are NOT our ways!

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with you about miracles. As a matter of fact, I see miracles as God's way of teaching us that, while me may know and control quite a bit, we're still human and there are thinks that we will probably never know the answers to this side of glory.

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

Of course it is not based solely on works! No-one would claim that. The wonderful Epistles of Paul that you mentioned are the living proof of that! However, that is no reason to dismiss other parts of the Bible. If you had been able to transcend your preconceptions, you would have considered alternative hypotheses based on the actual Bible. Let us take the story of Abraham and Isaac. Paul takes it as irrefutable proof of Salvation through Faith™:

Romans 4:2-3
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Similarly, James tackles the issue of Abraham and Isaac in His wonderful Epistle:

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

And Jesus Himself will consider the Works of each and every one of us in due course!

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

For the false Christian this is self-contradictory and so he dismisses the part that he likes less. For instance, Mr. Luther, the papist-in-protestant-disguise, tried to remove James and Revelation among others from the Bible (Jesus Christ! He never got to Revelation 22:19, did he?). That won't work. You have to look past these apparent contradictions NOT with logic (here we go again) but with Faith™! Trust God! Salvation comes only through Faith®. Salvation comes through Works®. Logic says this is impossible but God can do Miracles (Revelation 19:6) that are by definition impossible and irrational. The scholastics and their useless followers (just look at Barth, Pannenberg, McGrath etc. etc.) try to say that God only can do things that are "logical". Hence, they deny miracles.

Ah, but you see, you've made a common mistake in understanding works. Abraham and Isaac lived before Christ. Christ's death and resurrection, long after the lives and actions of the Old Testament patriarchs, took away the need for works for salvation. Remember, up until that point the people of Israel were still called even to make sacrifices and follow the Levitical order for worship in atonement of their sins. Yes, Abraham and Isaac were judged by their works, because they lived in a time before the requirement of works was overturned by Jesus's perfect sacrifice and resurrection.

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

SUMMARY

Works: what to think about them!
1. The nature of a deed within the good-evil axis is determined not by the content of an action but by the person doing the action!

Psalms 53:1
(To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David.) The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

If you fail to have Faith™, all your actions are evil. If you as an atheist save a child from being eaten alive by vultures, it is evil in the Master Plan of Jesus, it causes consequences that are contrary to the agenda of Jesus. However, Saved persons do only good things (you were very close to this conclusion, points for that!).

Such a statement in my opinion is questioning the omnipotence of God, as well as clear scripture. Scripture (I forget the reference) states that God works all things for his good, and the implication is that that is regardless of the person that does them. Yet you just claimed that the actions of atheists are always contrary to God's plan. To make the proposition that God's plan could be countered in the slightest is to question his omnipotence and omniscience.

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Again, this seems contradictory IF you follow secular logic. It's the same with being Saved through childbirth only. With "rational" logic you try to twist it into something that you like, which by definition shows that you are not yet one with Jesus.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

I don't see how I'm really twisting it into something that suits me, I'm just stating the obvious (or at least trying to).

[Princess L]

Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda

Sorry dear, but the LORD is quite clear on that. From the very beginning, when the LORD first nurtured the Israelites and brought them under His mantle of protection, He declared that unbelievers and those who defy His Ways are evil and are to be avoided at all costs (even unto death).

The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 17:7

Jesus tells us not to waste time with those who refuse to capitulate to His Will. People like you are worse than swine, not to be trusted lest you take advantage of our good and humble nature.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matthew 7:6

We are compelled to recognize the sinner and shun him. The sinner is he who refuses to do as God commands (like having many children).

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Romans 16:17

It would not only be foolish of us to give you a chance, but it may be dangerous as it could very well impact our eternal fate. And you respect our beliefs enough to not interfere with our God-given right to judge you, right?

Well it is obvious that I cannot interfere with your want to judge me.

Mrs. Etheldreda, you continue to use insulting language mixed in with flawed reasoning, and I have no desire to continue any discourse with you. If you respond to me further, expect no response.

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by Princess L

Ah, but you see, you've made a common mistake in understanding works. Abraham and Isaac lived before Christ. Christ's death and resurrection, long after the lives and actions of the Old Testament patriarchs, took away the need for works for salvation. Remember, up until that point the people of Israel were still called even to make sacrifices and follow the Levitical order for worship in atonement of their sins. Yes, Abraham and Isaac were judged by their works, because they lived in a time before the requirement of works was overturned by Jesus's perfect sacrifice and resurrection.

... Scripture (I forget the reference) states that God works all things for his good, and the implication is that that is regardless of the person that does them. Yet you just claimed that the actions of atheists are always contrary to God's plan. To make the proposition that God's plan could be countered in the slightest is to question his omnipotence and omniscience.

Dear Child,

It is very good that you admit having no valid references. It is also sad, as they would be available.

1. "Christ's death and resurrection, long after the lives and actions of the Old Testament patriarchs, took away the need for works for salvation."

The New Testament disagrees. had you taken the effort to read even a tiny bit around the verse James 2:23, you would have noticed that James used the story of Abraham and Isaac as an example of how things still stand. Let us see:

James 2:23-24
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

You see: "not by faith only"! Similarly, you failed to assess revelation 20:13, where Jesus judges (in the New Testament) everyone by their works. OK. Please tell us, which of the following is your rationalization for this.

• James lies.
• James wrote something else but his words have been twisted and the Bible is not reliable.
• You dismiss these verses because they fail to satisfy your preconceptions.

2. Good and Evil

Of course everything is ultimately realized in God's Glory, but the GOOD of God is not what we feel to be "nice" and fluffy. Sometimes God lets things run their own course just because. Some of this means that people (with free will) choose to oppose His plans (Genesis 6:6 is the pivotal verse; of course, God would know that this would happen - there is a reason why He Created Hell (Matthew 25:41) and made it possible for souls to communicate between Heaven and Hell (Luke 16:22-26), of course

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Again, please make a choice:

• Psalms 53:1 and Isaiah are mistaken. We can't trust the Bible.
• The words have been twisted and we cannot trust the Bible.
• You're blinded by your preconceptions and dismiss verses that do not fit your comfort zone.

That said, I see some hope in you. You have almost realized how futile secular logic is when it comes to assessing God's Word. I'll keep you in my prayers.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer