[FatZ2018]

Bwahahaha!!! Infraction heeded. Might think about holding your own members to the same standards!

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by BigZ2018

So what is your answer to that question?Or do you just want to try and insult me and call me the anti christ and spew hatred like you do oh so easily?

Once again, I'm not going to play your game. If you have a point to make, kindly make it before the new year. I've conquered yeast infections faster than it's taken you to get to your point.

[FatZ2018]

That's just nasty! My point is Lucifer was cast to hell before the creation of earth. So that alone tells that yes the earth may only be 6000 years old but the universe itself could be older. That's my point.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by BigZ2018

That's just nasty! My point is Lucifer was cast to hell before the creation of earth. So that alone tells that yes the earth may only be 6000 years old but the universe itself could be older. That's my point.

If you could provide a specific Bible verse that supports your thesis, that would be great.

[FatZ2018]

Originally Posted by Basilissa

If you could provide a specific Bible verse that supports your thesis, that would be great.

Genesis 3:1-7

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by BigZ2018

That's just nasty! My point is Lucifer was cast to hell before the creation of earth. So that alone tells that yes the earth may only be 6000 years old but the universe itself could be older. That's my point.

Originally Posted by Basilissa

If you could provide a specific Bible verse that supports your thesis, that would be great.

Originally Posted by BigZ2018

Genesis 3:1-7

Genesis 3:1-7

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


Please kindly point which of the above verses talk about Lucifer being cast to Hell before creation of the Earth. Because somehow, I don't see it. Do I need reading glasses?

[FatZ2018]

Satan is the only one in the Bible to appear as a serpent and after his fall from grace he was not referenced to as Lucifer but as Satan. So prove to me that he wasnt cast out before.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by BigZ2018

Satan is the only one in the Bible to appear as a serpent and after his fall from grace he was not referenced to as Lucifer but as Satan. So prove to me that he wasnt cast out before.

OK, let's go with your interpretation that Serpent = Lucifer.

We both agree that the event described in Genesis 3:1-7 occured after the creation of earth, right? (We know that because the first human couple was created on the sixth day, Genesis 1:27-31).

If Serpent = Lucifer and if the events in Genesis 3:1-7 occurred after the creation of Earth, then, during that time, Lucifer was not cast down to Hell yet, but was free to walk wherever the hell he wanted.

Interestingly enough, the name "Lucifer" appears in the KJV only once, Isaiah 14:12, and Biblical scholars have been debating for a long time whether that references a fallen angel or a fallen earthly king. I don't feel knowledgeable enough to discuss with you all the possible meanings of the Hebrew word הילל; I'd rather wait to hear Dr. White's or Dr. Pendergrast's opinion on this.

Nonetheless, I find Isaiah 14:12 really interesting in context of Isaiah 14:13, which implies that a being named Lucifer first tried to ascend from earth to Heaven before falling down back to the Earth (and then down to Hell, Isaiah 14:15; also interesting is the use of future tense implying that falling to Hell hasn't happened yet when Isaiah was writing). That would suggest that Isaiah's Lucifer was, indeed, a human king who tried to rise above his station and was punished by God accordingly. Isaiah 14:13 makes me think that maybe Lucifer was a man who was trying to do something similar to the event described in Genesis 11:4.

Also please note, that according to Isaiah 14:12-13, the being named Lucifer tried to ascend from earth to heaven, which means both of them have already existed at the time.

[FatZ2018]

Revelation 12:7-97 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



And by what you implied that Lucifer was free to walk around and tempt Gods newest creation. Then you also implied that God didnt know that one of his Angel's was conspiring against him.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by BigZ2018

Revelation 12:7-97 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Yes, Revelation does describe a future event in which Michael will fight with and win against the dragon a.k.a. serpent a.k.a. Devil a.k.a. Satan. It will be during the End Days when Satan will be cast down from Heaven to Earth. In the future.

Also, please note that the name "Lucifer" is not mentioned here - hence, I will refrain from calling the devil with this name (as the name "Lucifer" may be referring to some random megalomaniac human, and not the Devil).

And by what you implied that Lucifer was free to walk around and tempt Gods newest creation.

The Devil (I'm assuming that when you say "Lucifer," you mean the Devil) was free to walk around and tempt not only Adam and Eve, but all people since then. We know that the Devil visited Jesus and was tempting Him (Matthew 4:1-11, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13). We also know that the Devil was freely walking around the earth at the time when Job was alive, making people suffer for God's and his own entertainment:

Job 1:6-12
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

If you keep reading Job, you will see that Satan was free to do quite a lot of damage to Job and his family, all with God's permission, in order to see who wins this bet. (Of course, all-knowing God already knew He would win this bet, but He decided to play anyway, letting Satan to kill Job's family, purely for entretainment purposes).

Then you also implied that God didnt know that one of his Angel's was conspiring against him.

My dear, I never said the Devil was conspiring against God. To the contrary: everything horrible that happens, it's all part of God's plan:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

For example, can you imagine how crowded would Garden of Eden be if people kept multiplying (as ordered in Genesis 1:28), without death putting the end to people's lives? The act of eating from the tree of knowledge had to happen in order for the world to be able to function normally. Hence, the Serpent was the most subtil of God's creations (Genesis 3:1) for a good reason. God made the Devil this way, knowing exactly how this will affect history.


Now, we could argue that while death in general is necessary, killing little children with painful tumors is a bit of an overkill, but who are we to question God's decisions?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by BigZ2018

That's just nasty! My point is Lucifer was cast to hell before the creation of earth. So that alone tells that yes the earth may only be 6000 years old but the universe itself could be older. That's my point.

That's it? That's your Big Reveal?

Who cares? Of course the universe itself could be older. It could be 13 billion years old. Then again, it could have been created just last Tuesday and the Good Lord in His Infinite Wisdom created us with false memories of years of experiences and thousands of human interactions, in addition to a complex historical network of pretend events that never happened!

What does this have to do with your foolishness about Jesus loving and forgiving everyone? Why do you think a Heavenly Father would send children born in far away countries with no chance to hear the Gospel into the Lake of Fire if He loved them? What kind of monster do you take Him for? And what kind of retard would be foolish enough to be told to worship that kind of monster, and then do it willingly?

[FatZ2018]

Well if you would have stayed on the subject at hand Mary you would see what I'm saying about the universe being older. But I guess I have to hold your hand so that you dont go off subject like you do so well.

[FatZ2018]

Basilessa thank you for the informational and direction I will definitely research it and see what I come up with. I firmly believe in a saying. If I'm wrong educate me dont belittle me. Thank you

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by FatZ2018

Basilessa thank you for the informational and direction I will definitely research it and see what I come up with. I firmly believe in a saying. If I'm wrong educate me dont belittle me. Thank you

Please do not be so condescending. While is Basilissa (note the correct spelling)is just a woman, she does make sense more than most due to her rigid following of the Holy Bible and well ingrained awareness of Gods Perfection and our foul, disgusting sin filled lives.
Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

[FatZ2018]

James I was in no way being condescending. That thank you was sincere. Even if we dont see eye to eye I enjoy an intelligent conversation on opposing views.

[FatZ2018]

Man you guys love giving infractions for nothing and just making stuff up but ok I'm cool with it.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by FatZ2018

James I was in no way being condescending. That thank you was sincere. Even if we dont see eye to eye I enjoy an intelligent conversation on opposing views.

Friend, Christians are always happy to hear an opposing viewpoint, no matter how invalid it is. I doubt to could ever see eye to eye with me, I am 6', 6" tall. If you looked at me straight into my steely blue eyes, you'd know in a moment that I am a Godly man and above reproach.
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

1 Corinthians 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:

Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.



Insofar as intelligent conversation, I do not see you using the Holy Bible to back up your outlandish comments. Do you just make things up out of thin air? We follow the KJV 1621 Bible as God had written. If God does not say it, it is not true.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[FatZ2018]

What outlandish comments did I make. And I'm not to far off I'm 6'2". Intelligence is measured in several facets as well as knowledge of the Bible.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by FatZ2018

Basilessa thank you for the informational and direction I will definitely research it and see what I come up with. I firmly believe in a saying. If I'm wrong educate me dont belittle me. Thank you

Please, do research all you want. Reading the Holy Bible would be a great start.

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by FatZ2018

That's just nasty! My point is Lucifer was cast to hell before the creation of earth. So that alone tells that yes the earth may only be 6000 years old but the universe itself could be older. That's my point.

It depends what you mean by "universe" and whether you regard "the beginning" as a volume of space or a location in time.

Genesis 1:1a In the beginning