[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

I don't choose a theory of the electron and then embrace it. I choose a theory to help better understand the universe. If the theory holds, then hallelujah.

You can do better than that answer

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

Yes.

Then your theory of natural selection indicates that it is better to believe in a God than not.

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

I suggest that the 21st century should be the century of reason, and civilizations should not believe anything unless it is backed up by facts.

Why the 21st? What, in the history of the world, makes this century special - in the 9th, 13th, & 17th centuries, they believed that they were at the cutting edge of technology, just until the next big thing came along.

Your reasoning for your lack of belief is faulty. The standards of your required proof vary between God and science. Your trust in electrons is touching, your trust in God is lamentable but the nature of the trust is the same. You need to sit down and think why you believe what you believe.

LBDD - get yourself sorted out

[LyingDingDong]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

You can do better than that answer

I'm sorry but that's the best answer I can give you.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

Then your theory of natural selection indicates that it is better to believe in a God than not.

Only in a soceity that isn't governed by science and reason. And by the way, ours is.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

Why the 21st? What, in the history of the world, makes this century special - in the 9th, 13th, & 17th centuries, they believed that they were at the cutting edge of technology, just until the next big thing came along.

The 20th and 21st century is different from the other centuries because our centuries are the products of the enlightenment and the scientific revolution.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

Your reasoning for your lack of belief is faulty. The standards of your required proof vary between God and science. Your trust in electrons is touching, your trust in God is lamentable but the nature of the trust is the same. You need to sit down and think why you believe what you believe.

There is no proof for God, but there is for the electron.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Originally Posted by iLOVEgeorgebush

But of course if you can give me PHYSICAL PROOF OF GODS EXISTANCE, I will change my ideas and side with you.

God said He created man and here I am.

[Brother Temperance]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

Only in a soceity that isn't governed by science and reason. And by the way, ours is.

Define governed. To me, our society appears to be governed by George W. Bush. Is he what you'd call a reasonable scientist?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

Only in a soceity that isn't governed by science and reason. And by the way, ours is.

People always know that they live in a time of wisdom and reason. In the Old Testament The Lord's wisdom gave them the gift of a Land of Milk and Honey with perfectly designed laws, which were understandable and reasonable.

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

The 20th and 21st century is different from the other centuries because our centuries are the products of the enlightenment and the scientific revolution.

No. I tried to convey in my post that in 1000 years people will look back and laugh at our society and scientific achievements, whilst they will still have the same belief in a constant God.

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

There is no proof for God, but there is for the electron.

There is some records of the effect of a thing that we call an electron. But, as per Feynman, the concept is nebulous and, in the face of the anti-matter electron, it requires that someone produce a new mathematics - so an absence of proof all round really - just a theory.

Here are you, quite happy with this, yet when it comes to The Lord God, you claim that He does not exist - yet the proof is all about you and is as strong as any theory.

[LyingDingDong]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

I tried to convey in my post that in 1000 years people will look back and laugh at our society and scientific achievements, whilst they will still have the same belief in a constant God.

You are blind if you can't see the differences between these last two centuries and the last two millenia. Why is there a population boom in this century, why are people living longer, why is food not scarce even during the population crisis, it's because of our scientific achievements.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

There is some records of the effect of a thing that we call an electron. But, as per Feynman, the concept is nebulous and, in the face of the anti-matter electron, it requires that someone produce a new mathematics - so an absence of proof all round really - just a theory.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but if you're hinting that we need to find the anti-matter electron, it is found and used in positron emission tomography (PET) to scan the brain. If you're hinting to why there's more electrons than anti-matter electrons, then yes we need to find a theory for that.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

Here are you, quite happy with this, yet when it comes to The Lord God, you claim that He does not exist - yet the proof is all about you and is as strong as any theory.

My eyes are wide open and God is nowhere to be seen.

[Nobar King]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

You are blind.

That's quite an accusation, ding-a-ling. You wouldn't be here wasting your time trying to argue with brother Bathfire if you didn't think he was up to the challenge. Does that make you blind, too? Obviously not.

You're obviously just shamed by the wise insight of your opponent. That's what happens when you try to contradict the word of Jesus. You fail. Every time. What did you expect?

This condition is usually referred to as 'projection' within the psych crowd: you're obviously crying out to Jesus for him to help you open your eyes and see his glory! You won't be blind, forever, hopefully.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

My eyes are wide open and God is nowhere to be seen.

You have scales upon your eyes and can't see the nose on your face. We are all praying for you to receive Christ.

Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Originally Posted by Nobar King

That's quite an accusation, ding-a-ling. You wouldn't be here wasting your time trying to argue with brother Bathfire if you didn't think he was up to the challenge. Does that make you blind, too? Obviously not.

You're obviously just shamed by the wise insight of your opponent. That's what happens when you try to contradict the word of Jesus. You fail. Every time. What did you expect?

This condition is usually referred to as 'projection' within the psych crowd: you're obviously crying out to Jesus for him to help you open your eyes and see his glory! You won't be blind, forever, hopefully.

Amen Brother Nobar!! The truth is, this boy's daddy is satan. That's why he can't understand what's being said, through the Holy Ghost.

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

You are blind if you can't see the differences between these last two centuries and the last two millenia. Why is there a population boom in this century, why are people living longer, why is food not scarce even during the population crisis, it's because of our scientific achievements.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but if you're hinting that we need to find the anti-matter electron, it is found and used in positron emission tomography (PET) to scan the brain. If you're hinting to why there's more electrons than anti-matter electrons, then yes we need to find a theory for that.


My eyes are wide open and God is nowhere to be seen.

My original remark still stands – our position at this point in history will not be the final point, and thus future societies will look back and laugh.

You underestimate the civilization of the past – the 2000 year old Iraqi battery and 1000s of other things (click here) that are equally amazing.

You are describing your own faults – you accept science blindly and it changes but reject God, Who is constant.

You describe the last 200 years as if it has been some sort of golden age incomparable to any other. It has not. A person in England in 60BC would not have recognized England in 160AD after the Roman invasion of 55BC. A person from 1000AD would not have recognized the country in 1200AD after the invasion of the Normans in 1066. The social, economic and technological changes in these times were truly immense. The same is true of the leap in power and wealth between 1400 and 1600, as God inspired the conquering of the world.

On the other hand the last 200 years up the far reaches of the Amazon jungle has remained singularly unaffected by your science.

I see where you are coming from in some posts but your background knowledge seems lacking. This applies to science, history and religion. I was once where you are now – in respect of this discussion, I know what it is like to be you, you have no idea what it is like to be me.



Accept God.

[LyingDingDong]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

My original remark still stands – our position at this point in history will not be the final point, and thus future societies will look back and laugh.

That may be so, but future soceities will look back and also say that this was the turning point for science.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

You are describing your own faults – you accept science blindly and it changes but reject God, Who is constant.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster would also be a constant. Because I see no evidence to hint that either your religion or the pastafarians' is correct.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

You describe the last 200 years as if it has been some sort of golden age incomparable to any other. It has not. A person in England in 60BC would not have recognized England in 160AD after the Roman invasion of 55BC. A person from 1000AD would not have recognized the country in 1200AD after the invasion of the Normans in 1066. The social, economic and technological changes in these times were truly immense. The same is true of the leap in power and wealth between 1400 and 1600, as God inspired the conquering of the world.

It's true that soceity has always been advancing, but there have been more innovations, more inventions, more cures, etc. in the last two centuries than in the last 10,000 years. Or 6,000 if we want to follow your religion. These last two centuries have been a turning point and I don't believe that a man of your intellect can't see that.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

I see where you are coming from in some posts but your background knowledge seems lacking. This applies to science, history and religion. I was once where you are now – in respect of this discussion, I know what it is like to be you, you have no idea what it is like to be me.

I will admit that your background knowledge of all three of those subjects probably surpases mine - I am, after all, only in high school - but you cannot say that you know what it is like to be me. You might be able to comprehend how I think, act, or apply myself, but my state of being is something you can't comprehend.

[Nobar King]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

I will admit that your background knowledge of all three of those subjects probably surpases mine - I am, after all, only in high school - but you cannot say that you know what it is like to be me. You might be able to comprehend how I think, act, or apply myself, but my state of being is something you can't comprehend.

None of us cares about your id, your ego, or your super ego. Also, what makes you think that a bunch of adults can't comprehend the lofty thoughts of a teen-ager? We've all been there. That doesn't justify your behavior. It only shows that your are a child trying to pick arguments with God. That has been done before, many times. Maybe you could use a time out and a little woodshedding at your local seminary library.

Give our brother Ezekiel a break. He has his own family to care for besides answering your school-boy questions. Are you going to love Jesus or not?

LIng-a-ling, when you have learned something interesting to share about life or your connection to the Lord, then you should come here and share that with us. We look forward to your contributions, but, thematically they could use some help.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

That may be so, but future societies will look back and also say that this was the turning point for science.

A bold assertion - Have we got everything right then? Look around, I think not.

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

The Flying Spaghetti Monster would also be a constant. Because I see no evidence to hint that either your religion or the pastafarians' is correct.

FSM is entirely invented for humorous purposes - somewhat different, I think, from Landover and Christianity.

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

It's true that society has always been advancing, but there have been more innovations, more inventions, more cures, etc. in the last two centuries than in the last 10,000 years. Or 6,000 if we want to follow your religion. These last two centuries have been a turning point and I don't believe that a man of your intellect can't see that.

The consumption of fossil fuel is in direct proportion to this increase in "scientific" advancement, the wealth of nations is bound to their per captia consumption - is this good? Is this the result of science? Science has no morals - God does.

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

I will admit that your background knowledge of all three of those subjects probably surpases mine - I am, after all, only in high school - but you cannot say that you know what it is like to be me. You might be able to comprehend how I think, act, or apply myself, but my state of being is something you can't comprehend.

What you state is what I intended to convey - I am suggesting that there is more to the world than science and that such unquestioning faith in science is not uncommon amongst people of your age. A trust in God is less common but worthwhile, nay, essential. it is quite surprising how His advice has been good throughout all this time without lessening the quality of life.

[LyingDingDong]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

A bold assertion - Have we got everything right then? Look around, I think not.

No, but science was a catalyst for innovation.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

FSM is entirely invented for humorous purposes - somewhat different, I think, from Landover and Christianity.

From your point of view they are the same. I see them as two equal superstitions.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

The consumption of fossil fuel is in direct proportion to this increase in "scientific" advancement, the wealth of nations is bound to their per captia consumption - is this good? Is this the result of science? Science has no morals - God does.

Fossil fuels was nothing but fancy mud before science was able to find its potential.

[Dr. Santiago Solo]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

From your point of view they are the same. I see them as two equal superstitions.

That is why you will burn in Hell.

Fossil fuels was nothing but fancy mud before science was able to find its potential.

Not science, buddy, human greed, quite different...

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

I choose a theory to help better understand the universe. If the theory holds, then hallelujah.

That's exactly why we Christians say "Hallelujah."

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

You are blind if you can't see the differences between these last two centuries and the last two millenia. Why is there a population boom in this century, why are people living longer, why is food not scarce even during the population crisis, it's because of our scientific achievements.

You're missing the bigger picture. The End Times are at hand, and God needs to get the population up to a sufficient level that Death and starvation can kill 25% of everyone alive:

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Revelation 6:7-8

We could hardly starve if there were only 10 or 20 milion of us, could we? That's why God invented tractors, chemical fertilizers, PET scanners, Jarvik hearts, and whatnot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but if you're hinting that we need to find the anti-matter electron, it is found and used in positron emission tomography (PET) to scan the brain.

Kind of like the way nuclear magnets are used in nuclear magnetic resonance imaging? Look, if God created the electron, why couldn't he create positrons, too, and as many of each as he wanted? Of course, as one of the elect, I'm firmly on the electron side of this debate.

My eyes are wide open and God is nowhere to be seen.

So were Ray Charles's. He's buring in Hell now. Must have been something he said.

Originally Posted by LingBlingDingDong

future soceities will look back and also say that this was the turning point for science.

You might want to leave the prophecy to us Christians, we have more experience with that sort of thing--and we know the cheat codes to the Bible.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster would also be a constant. Because I see no evidence to hint that either your religion or the pastafarians' is correct.

What is it with you athiests and flying spaghetti monsters? Did you all have some kind of spaghetti trauma when you were infants? Ditto for orbiting teapots.

in the last two centuries than in the last 10,000 years. Or 6,000 if we want to follow your religion. These last two centuries have been a turning point and I don't believe that a man of your intellect can't see that.

Again, God needs to get the population up before he can starve one out of four of us. By us, of course, I mean you, since we True Christians™ will be flying out of here well before that happens.

but you cannot say that you know what it is like to be me.

It's not always easy being you, is it? Turn your life over to Jesus, and all that will change.

[PityfulFool]

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe

Are you talking about the theory that the Universe came from a singularity? Well friend, caused The Big Bang? You still need a creator.

Now friend I would like to you to prove God doesn't exist.

Interesting i belive both theorys are incorrect from that statement.

You say someone had to create the big bang. (witch tells me you dont understand what the big bang is)

So for a minute i will take your approch,

God created > Big Bang

So who created God?

P.S. please dont give me a bible quote or say that he always was.
because i could just as easyly say the universe always was.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Well, Bobby Joe, one could say on that note could you prove god does exist...but since you love the bible I'll go with that. All of the 'promises' and prophecies jeebuz made....please point out a single one that's been fulfilled.

[MattyB]

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe

The existence of the Universe is proof of God’s existence. After all how can something exist without a creator?

I wish you atheists would try to be more logical.

I could say The Hindu god created everything, therefore he is the true god. It is reverse logic which is nonsense, it proves nothing.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by MattyB

I could say The Hindu god created everything, therefore he is the true god. It is reverse logic which is nonsense, it proves nothing.

Well you could say it but, if I were you, I would not. That is because there is no single Hindu god, there are hundreds of them including monkeys, elephants and some eight armed slut. Also, they worship cows! A religion that denies itself burgers - ludicrous! And you reckon that they have a valid claim to rule the earth and our souls???? I pity you!

Nevertheless, two points are thus raised: if it takes all those gods to run the Earth, they must be a bit feeble mustn’t they? Now God requires no help running the world thus He must be better.

On top of that, He created the world, therefore the Hindu gods couldn’t have been here before that – they are merely immigrants, and as I don’t see God giving them permission to be here, they are illegal immigrants*.

This, in its turn puts them at the same level as Mexican’ts: so, the question I ask you is, could you worship a Mexican’t (as long as you can keep him awake long enough to listen to you)?

*(Have a look around – you’ll see Hindus everywhere, one arrives then it’s their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, uncles, aunts, wives, sons and daughters and before you know it the entire village is here.)

So, in future, I’d advise you to stick to asking questions rather than trying to give answers or simply scribble out stupid statements without any though whatsoever.

[Nobar King]

Praise!! Bill O'Reilly showed tonight that the Shroud of Turin is real! I always believed that the image was the true face of Christ. I'll post the video as soon as I can find it.

Here's more information about the new discovery:

Knights Templar Hid the Shroud of Turin, Vatican Says

Monday, April 06, 2009
Medieval knights hid and secretly venerated The Holy Shroud of Turin for more than 100 years after the Crusades, the Vatican said Sunday in an announcement that appeared to solve the mystery of the relic’s missing years.

The Knights Templar, an order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy, took care of the linen cloth, which bears the image of a man with a beard, long hair and the wounds of crucifixion, according to Vatican researchers.

The Shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral, has long been revered as the shroud in which Jesus was buried, although the image only appeared clearly in 1898 when a photographer developed a negative. Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century. Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.

However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access."


There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.
Click here to read more on this story from the Times of London.