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Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
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Posts: 79,910
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Freehold, Iowa
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Christian Judge Persecuted For Denying Divorce -
09-06-2015, 10:05 PM
Well if THIS isn't Christian Persecution then I don't know what is. Prater Warriors, ASSUME THE POSITION!
Quote:
Tennessee Judge Won’t Divorce Straight Couple Because of Gay Marriage
A state judge in Tennessee has refused to allow the divorce of a straight couple, saying that the Supreme Court effectively declared the American people incompetent of deciding the law when they the Court legalized same-sex marriage.
Hamilton County chancellor Jeffrey Atherton last week denied Thomas Bumgardner, 65, and his wife, Pamela, 61, a divorce, citing multiple reasons for this and chiefly deciding that their marriage is not “irretrievably broken” and might be salvaged–which of itself is a worrying projection of Atherton’s own personal rather than legal opinions. However, one reason that is raising eyebrows is his contention that the Supreme Court’s June ruling in Obergefell has rendered the American people unable to say what constitutes a viable marriage, much less a divorce, and that it is now up to the Supreme Court to decide what marriages can be dissolved.
Says Atherton in the order:
With the US Supreme Court having defined what must be recognized as a marriage, it would appear that Tennessee’s judiciary must now await the decision of the US Supreme Court as to what is not a marriage, or better stated, when a marriage is no longer a marriage. The conclusion reached by this Court is that Tennesseans have been deemed by the US Supreme Court to be incompetent to define and address such keystone/central institutions such as marriage, and, thereby, at minimum, contested divorces.
Legal professionals are said to be thrown by this refusal. It is unusual to deny a divorce in cases like this, even if the divorce contains contested facts–one party claims infidelity while the other denies this charge, though both want a divorce due to irreconcilable differences. However, to deny a divorce to make a political statement is quite something else. Some have reportedly questioned whether Atherton’s refusal is even legal, though others are of the opinion that as this was not the sole factor in his dismissal, while going beyond the normal bounds of disagreement, it was within his power. Nearly all seem to agree that the politicking from the bench is indiscreet and possibly detrimental to the process of law.
State Supreme Court Justice Penny White, now a professor at the University of Tennessee College of Law, is quoted as saying very bluntly that regardless of Atherton’s opinions, “State court judges, regardless of their personal points of view, must defer to the Supreme Court’s constitutional interpretation.”
Some commentators have said that what this amounts to is Atherton taking the couple in this case hostage in order to grandstand. They are calling for the legislature to remove the judge from the bench because, they say, he has demonstrated contempt for the law. The Republican-controlled Tennessee legislature appears unlikely to remove Atherton, and so this may set an unwelcome precedent–not a legally binding one, but one that might encourage other officials to act out against marriage equality.
Ultimately this case is unlikely to have wide-reaching ramifications though. However, what it does speak to is the way that religious conservatives unhappy with the Supreme Court ruling have been able to create doubt and generally attempt to de-legitimize the ruling that effectively legalized marriage equality across the United States. For same-sex couples in Tennessee, like elsewhere, this makes an already nervy situation that much more fraught.
In the wake of the Supreme Court ruling, what would have been appropriate would have been for state legislatures to pass bills reinforcing that, while private beliefs must of course be protected, elected officials whatever their capacity must adhere to the law when it comes to marriage equality. This wouldn’t have precluded Atherton offering up his opinions, but it would have given same-sex couples some added security. Unfortunately, that appears unlikely at both the state and federal level at the moment. As a result, we get cases like this and those of county clerks refusing to serve same-sex couples, all with the outcome of putting yet more pressure on same-sex couples, and now straight couples, too.
In the meantime, Thomas and Pamela Bumgardner can re-file their divorce proceedings and cite a different basis for separation. Atherton has indicated his desire for the couple to reconcile, though has agreed that the couple is entitled to refile if they should so choose. Here’s hoping that Atherton’s rather tantrum-like behavior over same-sex marriage rights is now over.
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Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)
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Mayor of Freehold
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Posts: 12,176
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: City Hall, Freehold, Iowa
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Re: Christian Judge Persecuted For Denying Divorce -
09-07-2015, 05:05 PM
God Bless Mr. Atherton. He speaks for the entire nation in saying the Supreme Court made it impossible to define marriage when it legalized homer marriage. If we can't decide what is marriage, how can we decide what is not marriage?
This country must come to grips with the fact the Supreme Court has ruined our nation.
Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Completely CRAZY for the Lord
True Christian™
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Posts: 14,666
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leviticus Landing
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Re: Christian Judge Persecuted For Denying Divorce -
09-07-2015, 08:58 PM
Jesus requires divorced persons to remain single, or rather He instructs us that divorced person are still married:
Mark 9:50–10:12 KJV
Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another. And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again. And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. So whether the woman or her owner initiated the divorce, the state of affairs remains as it had been and subsequent connubialising is adulterous regardless of any licences issued or registers signed. The judge is magnanimous in his willingness to enable the reconciliation encouraged by God:
I Corinthians 7:10-11 KJV
Unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
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An old soul
True Christian™
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Posts: 5,237
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: USA-UK-France (traveling)
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Re: Christian Judge Persecuted For Denying Divorce -
09-19-2015, 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johny Joe Hold
God Bless Mr. Atherton. He speaks for the entire nation in saying the Supreme Court made it impossible to define marriage when it legalized homer marriage. If we can't decide what is marriage, how can we decide what is not marriage?
This country must come to grips with the fact the Supreme Court has ruined our nation.
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This is exactly what will bring our communities back together in unison against the Supreme Court. By denying straight divorces, thousands of divorcing couples will stand strong together and march, hand-in-hand across the nation in favor of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage so that they can finally divorce eachother and never have to see that person again. It makes perfect sense. This is a no-brainer victory.
Draft Freehold, Iowa Mayor
Johny Joe Hold
for President in 2024
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Completely CRAZY for the Lord
True Christian™
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Posts: 14,666
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Location: Leviticus Landing
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Re: Christian Judge Persecuted For Denying Divorce -
09-19-2015, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Anthony J. Toole
This is exactly what will bring our communities back together in unison against the Supreme Court. By denying straight divorces, thousands of divorcing couples will stand strong together and march, hand-in-hand across the nation in favor of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage so that they can finally divorce each other and never have to see that person again. It makes perfect sense. This is a no-brainer victory.
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Now perhaps I'm speaking out of turn here but could there be an example for us in the mohammedan tradition? Four wives are permitted but—unlike where 5 homosexuals were all married—the 5 mohammedans are not married to one another are they? It's only the man who has multiple partners. I suppose his wives have to do whatever he tells them notwithstanding but two of the wives couldn't divorce each other could they because they're not married in the first place? What would be the position for let's say two normal couples who had divorced and remarried either man the other and the wives similarly done some ceremony with themselves like I'm getting confused here but should they have their pervert unions annulled would they then be married in the original configuration?
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An old soul
True Christian™
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Posts: 5,237
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: USA-UK-France (traveling)
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Re: Christian Judge Persecuted For Denying Divorce -
09-20-2015, 08:22 AM
Miss Litza, you're getting your pretty little head all confused, dear. Are you trying to say the judge should annul all divorces in the state of Tennessee? Because that is quite simply a stroke of genius idea (completely accidental I'm sure). This would return the couples to their original partners who would thene all rise up against the Supreme Court to demand the abolution of gay marriage. I only wish we had more brave activist judges taking a stand against the Supreme Court... judges. I think that's right.
Draft Freehold, Iowa Mayor
Johny Joe Hold
for President in 2024
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Completely CRAZY for the Lord
True Christian™
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Posts: 14,666
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leviticus Landing
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Re: Christian Judge Persecuted For Denying Divorce -
09-22-2015, 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Anthony J. Toole
Miss Litza, you're getting your pretty little head all confused, dear. Are you trying to say the judge should annul all divorces in the state of Tennessee? Because that is quite simply a stroke of genius idea (completely accidental I'm sure). This would return the couples to their original partners who would thene all rise up against the Supreme Court to demand the abolution of gay marriage. I only wish we had more brave activist judges taking a stand against the Supreme Court... judges. I think that's right.
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Would that include previously homosexually-wed couples who'd gotten dissolved and married oppositely sexed partners? I thought the idea was that since the concept of marriage—to produce the next generation of blood kindred i.e. the Biblical standard—has been superseded overturning former commitments becomes null and void. The overturning that is. Not the commitment. So the judge was unable to effect a divorce under the old regime because the old regime no longer existed. A bit like if my car ran on leaded fuel and I decided to change the tank I couldn't find a suitably sized nozzle so might as well switch to kerosene except I'm not allowed to run on kerosene and I couldn't reregister it as "unleaded" because at the end of the day it wasn't. Even if the filler has been changed?
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