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Smile Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 10-31-2017, 01:30 PM

Yes, it is Harsha Shah here. I am still very busy as I am teaching the pupils and I am also dating a very nice young colleague, a man. We are still doing RME that is, yes, religious and moral education. We have been reading books that are telling how the old Testament is not literal but is is an allegory. Yes, I am hoping that I am not offending you.

I was also reading the New testament and it is also stating that the old testament is a metaphorical book. Yes. In the Genesis I have been reading how "Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar." It is in Genesis 16:1 of your Bible. In your Bible in the newer testament Paul is saying that this was nor really happening but that it is allegorical. Yes. It is in the Galatians letter Chapter 2 verses 22 and 123 and 24. yes. "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar."

I am now seeing that there never was any Abraham or the wives but that it is only a story. The things were not really happening and Paul is saying as much. Yes. Now I am understanding the Bible much better, as our texts in Jainism are also metaphors about the journey that we take through life. Yes, they are roadmaps but the road is much more than the map. The Bible is also a roadmap and one day you will be discarding the map and looking at the actual path that is the ahimsa, the non-violence. I am hoping that I was not offending you and I wish you all a merry Christmastime. Yes.


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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 10-31-2017, 02:20 PM

Your problem, as demonstrated in your general mangling of American in your posts, is understanding what the True Christian (or common peasant of 1611) would have understood by "Which things are an allegory:"

We need to know that "things" means "the Biblically true events, of which I have just told you."
and
"were an allegory"
which means "can be used as an allegory (as well as being "Biblically true events) for those who speak American and/or have not had brain damage and/or are not women.)"

The point of the Abraham story can be used as another allegory": Sarah, as any wife would, tells her husband that as she is barren and he wants a son, he had better "go in unto" the handmaiden". A human solution.
God later intervenes and simply and painlessly reverses the 50-odd-year menopause in Sarah and shows the Divine solution.

The documented facts merely tell a story, but every word of the Bible has a message for us.

You will be telling us next that Jesus's parables were "allegories".





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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 10-31-2017, 05:10 PM

Dear Ms. Harsha Sha,
it seems that your deluded religion turned Abraham and his wife into Gods, no wonder why India is in a such terrible state. But fear not, our godly Christian soldiers (along with some Muslim terrorists) will solve that problem very soon.
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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-01-2017, 04:39 AM

Harsha,

Abraham was an allegory for freedom; the Emancipation Percolation. Why Paul Ryan would say he isn't real is no surprise, given how committed he is to undermining the pillars that actually do make our country great, that being, freedom and equality for all.
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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-01-2017, 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaleWhoring the Boring View Post
Harsha,

Abraham was an allegory for freedom; the Emancipation Percolation. Why Paul Ryan would say he isn't real is no surprise, given how committed he is to undermining the pillars that actually do make our country great, that being, freedom and equality for all.
Mrs. Whoring,

It is I, Harsha Shah, and I am answering you. I am hoping that I am not offending you. You are seeing one interpretation of a mythical narrative, yes, and I am saying yes to your interpretation. But I am also saying yes to the other interpretations, too, even those of the christians of this interesting forum. Yes!

It is like the story of the blind men and the elephants. One is touching the trunk and taking it for a hose. Another is stumbling upon the massive feet and saying that they are Greek colums. You have perhaps reached the yoni and you are being obsessed with it. Yes, I am afraid that I might be offending you.

Yes, you could be seeing the whole elephant that is much more than the descriptions, and in its eyes you would be finding the person, the sibling, the suffering and the ahimsa. When you are sharing the suffering the violence must come to an end. Yes. I am very sorry if I was offending any one of you with this post, yes.


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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-01-2017, 02:00 PM

Miss Shah--I wish instead of studying Abraham and allegory you would work on shutting down Hindu call centers. Every time I make a hotel reservation I talk to a Hindu. It's like, "Dats Tersday, Novembiender two, qveen seise."


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-01-2017, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harsha Shah View Post
Mrs. Whoring,

It is I, Harsha Shah, and I am answering you. I am hoping that I am not offending you. You are seeing one interpretation of a mythical narrative, yes, and I am saying yes to your interpretation. But I am also saying yes to the other interpretations, too, even those of the christians of this interesting forum. Yes!

It is like the story of the blind men and the elephants. One is touching the trunk and taking it for a hose. Another is stumbling upon the massive feet and saying that they are Greek colums. You have perhaps reached the yoni and you are being obsessed with it. Yes, I am afraid that I might be offending you.

Yes, you could be seeing the whole elephant that is much more than the descriptions, and in its eyes you would be finding the person, the sibling, the suffering and the ahimsa. When you are sharing the suffering the violence must come to an end. Yes. I am very sorry if I was offending any one of you with this post, yes.
Oh don't worry, you are not offending me. Far from it. And yes, it is an interesting, if somewhat backwards place, this forum.

That said, yes, there are different ways one can interpret the initial meaning if your topic. Especially when one only looks at the title and doesn't look further. My apologies, reading makes my eyes tired, especially looking off my iphone.


There are a many times too I'd mistakenly interpret something that isn't so. If I touched an elephants truck, I might mistaken it for a really thick... well, you see what I mean. It's one big elephant to swallow. No easy feat.


Anyway, I accept all faiths you must know. And different interpretations. I don't believe the Bible is the only way, I mean, where you're from you've likely never even knew about it! It's not fair to condemn a completely different culture, which is why I will wish you well dear. Ahimsa to you.
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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-01-2017, 03:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaleWhoring the Boring View Post
I don't believe the Bible is the only way, I mean, where you're from you've likely never even knew about it!
You think they don't have Bibles over there in England?
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Smile Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-01-2017, 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaleWhoring the Boring View Post
mean, where you're from you've likely never even knew about it! It's not fair to condemn a completely different culture, which is why I will wish you well dear. Ahimsa to you.
Yes, Miss Whoring. It is Harsha Shah again. I am grateful for your kind reply, yes. I was born and I am living in Scotland, where I am working as a schoolteacher. Yes. I am hoping that I am not offending you, but I am thinking that you are judging my appearance and my use of the progressive verb forms. Yes, I have been reading the Bible for many years and the people of Scotland know it quite well, too. Yes. It is a completely different culture but I am not eating the haggis.

It is the blind men and the elephant again, yes? You are seeing an Asian woman and you are making hasty conclusions. Yes. This is also something that I have been reading in your bible. It is in the Proverbs book Chapter 18 and verse 13. "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." I am sorry if this verse is offending you.

Yes. I am hoping that you will be looking at the whole elephant. Yes.


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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-02-2017, 02:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaleWhoring the Boring View Post
I don't believe the Bible is the only way
You're wrong.

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6. See also Mark 16:16, Revelation 21:8 and John 15:6.

So the Bible is clear: Jesus or Hell. So believing that the Bible and something else can both be true at the same time is completely and utterly stupid. Only a demented retard or a woman could be dumb enough to even consider such an idiotic idea.

And no, Harsha Shah, Jesus was not a vegetarian: The Bible records Jesus eating fish (Luke 24:42-43) and lamb (Luke 22:8-15).


Freedom means voting for Donald Trump!
To most "Christians" The Bible is like a license agreement. They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree". All those "Christians" will burn in Hell!
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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-02-2017, 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harsha Shah View Post
I am now seeing that there never was any Abraham or the wives but that it is only a story. The things were not really happening and Paul is saying as much.
The Bible says that Jesus descended from Abraham:

Matthew 1:1-2, 17 KJV: 1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; ... 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations.

Luke 3:23, 34 KJV: 23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli, ... 34 Which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham, which was [the son] of Thara, which was [the son] of Nachor,


How can an actual person (or Person) descend from someone who was only an allegory? Alternatively, if "there never was any Abraham or the wives," what keeps the reader from concluding the same about Jesus?


This church is dedicated to preaching True Christianity™ and the King James Bible exactly as they are, with no alterations to make them more politically correct for modern liberals. If you think that we've misquoted or twisted Scripture or quoted any verse out of context, please explain in detail how we've done so. Otherwise, if what you read on this site offends you, then you're offended by Almighty God and His Word, not by us.

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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-02-2017, 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Isaac Peters View Post
The Bible says that Jesus descended from Abraham:

Matthew 1:1-2, 17 KJV: 1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; ... 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations.

Luke 3:23, 34 KJV: 23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli, ... 34 Which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham, which was [the son] of Thara, which was [the son] of Nachor,


How can an actual person (or Person) descend from someone who was only an allegory? Alternatively, if "there never was any Abraham or the wives," what keeps the reader from concluding the same about Jesus?
Pastor Peters, I must admit that Jesus' genealogy always confuses me. Why does Matthew 1:16 days that Joseph's father was named Jacob, while Luke 3:23 says that Joseph's father was named Heli? Was one of these names a nickname, or was he Jacob Heli or Heli Jacob?


The other confusing thing is, why was even Joseph's genealogy important? I mean, Jesus was the Son of God without Joseph's DNA participating in the immaculate conception, right?


I apologize for my silly questions. I realize that I should simply reject all logic and just rely on blind faith, but it is so hard!...


John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-03-2017, 03:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolores de Barriga View Post
Pastor Peters, I must admit that Jesus' genealogy always confuses me. Why does Matthew 1:16 days that Joseph's father was named Jacob, while Luke 3:23 says that Joseph's father was named Heli? Was one of these names a nickname, or was he Jacob Heli or Heli Jacob?
Yes.
Quote:
The other confusing thing is, why was even Joseph's genealogy important? I mean, Jesus was the Son of God without Joseph's DNA participating in the immaculate conception, right?
DNA is the receptacle for the Spirit and Soul of Man. It is transfered by God during the Holy Rite of Matrimony and descends, invisible and undetectable upon the soul of the woman who then transfers it to her unborn child.

I hope that helps.





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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-04-2017, 02:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
Yes.
DNA is the receptacle for the Spirit and Soul of Man. It is transfered by God during the Holy Rite of Matrimony and descends, invisible and undetectable upon the soul of the woman who then transfers it to her unborn child.

I hope that helps.
Thank you for your reply Pastor. Unfortunately, it was not particularly helpful because I still have trouble rejecting rational logic and accepting the Biblical logic, and I don't think I can overcome that weakness of mine on my own. I have to request that True Christians™ pray for me in this regard.


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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-13-2017, 05:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Dolores de Barriga View Post
Thank you for your reply Pastor. Unfortunately, it was not particularly helpful because I still have trouble rejecting rational logic
As you seem unacquainted with "rational logic" it would be a mistake to reject Biblical logic, which is pre-processed logic - look on it as a private jet - it is always there for your use and it saves you time.
Quote:
and I don't think I can overcome that weakness of mine on my own. I have to request that True Christians™ pray for me in this regard.
No. You need to listen to your husband (I can't, at the moment, recall whether anyone's been foolish enough to marry you yet.)

Ephesians:5:22-3322 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.





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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-14-2017, 03:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
As you seem unacquainted with "rational logic" it would be a mistake to reject Biblical logic, which is pre-processed logic - look on it as a private jet - it is always there for your use and it saves you time.
Thank you for your rebuke, Pastor Bathfire. You are always filled with True Christian™ wisdom I deeply admire.

Quote:
No. You need to listen to your husband (I can't, at the moment, recall whether anyone's been foolish enough to marry you yet.)

Of course, Pastor. My husband is what you could call a "non-practicing Catholic", so I don't know if his guidance would be considered useful from your point of view.


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Rebuke Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-14-2017, 03:48 PM

You're spouting more new agey poppycock! You have no clue what you're even talking about here. True Christians were warned long ago about the likes of you and your new agey demon beliefs:


"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (2 Peter 2:1)




I suggest you REPENT before the coming of the Day of the Lard!! Confess your SINS and turn to JeSuS and be saved!! Next thing you'll be telling us is that Jesus himself was never real but is just an allegory. LOL nothing could be further from the truth I assure you. The Good Book is historical FACT and some of the stories within can be thought of as allegory in order for us to learn various lessons from them but the stories are still FACT nevertheless. IF you truly understood God's Word then you'd know this and you'd know that the Bible is so absolutely phenomenal that it has meanings on MANY different levels. Only God could accomplish such a feat and that's also proof positive that the Good Book was inspired by none other than God Himself.



I'm sure you have stories of your own life. I'm sure they are factual. But I'm also sure you can view those stories as allegory and draw lessons from them can't ya? But just cuz you see them as allegory now doesn't mean those stories in your own life are not factual personal history events. I'm not trying to be mean or disrespectful of you but you're teaching the new agey poppycock that is a false doctrine. A lie for the PIT!


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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-14-2017, 10:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Dolores de Barriga View Post
My husband is what you could call a "non-practicing Catholic", so I don't know if his guidance would be considered useful from your point of view.
Has he explained to you the catholic view of how sin gets transmitted and why, according to them, we inherit sin from Adam rather than Eve?
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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-15-2017, 04:20 PM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
Has he explained to you the catholic view of how sin gets transmitted and why, according to them, we inherit sin from Adam rather than Eve?
No, Miss Mitza. I should have put more emphasis on the fact that he is a non-practicing Catholic - that is, he visits a church when a couple of friends get married or friends' child gets baptized.


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Default Re: Yes. Abraham is an allegory. Paul is saying that he was not real. - 11-15-2017, 09:17 PM

Papists themselves comment on the subject at some length. I was revolted, but not surprised, when I found out; apparently the Europeans obsessed over this stuff from the outset.


..http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2081.htmThe cause of sin, on the part of man
Quote:
The relevant paragraph is down the page a bit:
Quote:
In endeavoring to explain how the sin of our first parent could be transmitted by way of origin to his descendants, various writers have gone about it in various ways. For some, considering that the subject of sin is the rational soul, maintained that the rational soul is transmitted with the semen, so that thus an infected soul would seem to produce other infected souls. Others, rejecting this as erroneous, endeavored to show how the guilt of the parent's soul can be transmitted to the children, even though the soul be not transmitted, from the fact that defects of the body are transmitted from parent to child--thus a leper may beget a leper, or a gouty man may be the father of a gouty son, on account of some seminal corruption, although this corruption is not leprosy or gout. Now since the body is proportionate to the soul, and since the soul's defects redound into the body, and vice versa, in like manner, say they, a culpable defect of the soul is passed on to the child, through the transmission of the semen, albeit the semen itself is not the subject of the guilt.

..http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2082.htmOriginal sin, as to its essence

..http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2083.htmThe subject of original sin






I'll include a feeble attempt at preempting objections to their own hellish creed in case anyone's interested it really is gobbledygook central and a laugh a minute for the cardinals wallowing in filthy lucre wrought with lies from those least able to answer them yes they're cackling now on satin pillows or should I say grunting?


..http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2080.htmThe cause of sin, as regards the devil
Quote:
Just to quote one meagre sample, showing the depth of their obfuscation and note the part highlighted in crimson..
Quote:
Objection 3. Further, the Philosopher says in a chapter of the Eudemein Ethics (vii, 18): "There must needs be some extrinsic principle of human counsel." Now human counsel is not only about good things but also about evil things. Therefore, as God moves man to take good counsel, and so is the cause of good, so the devil moves him to take evil counsel, and consequently is directly the cause of sin.
NOTES:
"Objection 3" - this follows a particular system of reasoning where one advances objections and responses to one's own proposition
"Eudemein Ethics (vii, 18)" - the depths of obfuscation plumbed by these charlatans odious shysters is twice laid bare in a single paragraph. Firstly, in that we need to plough through seven chapters of some other ecclesiastical porridge merely to understand the first sentence and secondly, well, who having read The Bible could wonder if the devil moves evil counsel or consequently is the cause of sin?

..http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2084.htmThe cause of sin, in respect of one sin being the cause of another
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