[refridgerator]

Hello. It is right to give gifts in Christmas? As far as I know there is no versicle in the Bible that support this ancient tradition.

Thank you.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by refridgerator

Hello. It is right to give gifts in Christmas? As far as I know there is no versicle in the Bible that support this ancient tradition.

Thank you.

Ofr course the Church accepts gifts at the Celebration of the Birth of Jesus (as well as all year round). Contact the church office or a senior Pastor with your bank name, routing number and the account number. Better still, make the Pastor a Power of Attorney for you and He will ensure you are taken care of.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by refridgerator

Hello. It is right to give gifts in Christmas? As far as I know there is no versicle in the Bible that support this ancient tradition.

That's because in order to know the appropriate verses you would have to read the Bible first.

Giving gifts is perfectly acceptable:

Proverbs 18:16 - A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men.

Luke 3:11 - He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Even evil people can give good gifts:

Matthew 7:11 - If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

It's receiving gifts that is problematic:

Exodus 23:8 And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.

Which explains why the best gift is the gift given to the church - not expecting a reciprocal action.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

The tradition is a papist one. Not satisfied with God creating the miracle of the Virgin Birth, and giving us His Son, Whom He knew would die for our sins, the Pope decided that he should add bells and whistles and told everyone that it was "Kings" who arrived, and they came to the stable with gifts. The Bible is quite clear: the people who came were Magi by trade, not kings, and that they came to see Jesus and Mary in their house in Bethlehem, not at the stable, and they came several years too late.

M't:2:1: Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
M't:2:2: Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
M't:2:3: When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
M't:2:4: And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
M't:2:5: And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
M't:2:6: And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
M't:2:7: Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
M't:2:8: And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
M't:2:9: When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
M't:2:10: When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
M't:2:11: And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshiped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Now Magi were people who stared at the stars and then took notes as to what happened on earth when certain stars were in certain places in the firmament. They were not interested in the science fiction stories told by deluded atheists and Catlix about "other worlds" "planets" and so-called "supernovae", which, even if they did exist, would be godless places and best avoided.

No - the magi were the sort of person, deeply Christian, who saw "signs and wonders in the Heavens" and what they saw was the equivalent of a broadcast on a hard-to-access part of the internet. It was the breaking news about Jesus having been born a few years earlier.

Obviously, at this point, they would wonder what they should do apart from saddle their camels and head West - Their wives probably insisted that they took gifts and so they went off to see Jesus.

Now. Jesus, being God, there was absolutely nothing that he could have wanted, because if he had wanted something, he could just have miracled it into existence. We can thus see that the gifts were of no significance at all.

This leaves the gifts looking pretty useless, and therefore we should take the same attitude: God has given us all we want - we need no other things - we should not give gifts.

[Harsha Shah]

Originally Posted by Basilissa

That's because in order to know the appropriate verses you would have to read the Bible first.

Giving gifts is perfectly acceptable:

Proverbs 18:16 - A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men.

Luke 3:11 - He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Even evil people can give good gifts:

Matthew 7:11 - If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

It's receiving gifts that is problematic:

Exodus 23:8 And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.

Which explains why the best gift is the gift given to the church - not expecting a reciprocal action.

Yes, Miss Basilissa, it is I Harsha Shah and I am posing a question to you. Yes. I am hoping that you are not offended but I am finding all this very confusing. Yes. I am. Yes. You are saying that it is perfectly all right to give gifts but not to receive them.

Yes. I have been reading your Bible and yes, the Exodus quote is very clear "Thou shalt take no gift". Yes. This is very clear. Now I am finding in the New Testament that the christian afterlife is a gift. Yes. It is in the letter to Romans Chapter 6, verse 23. Over there I am reading this: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yes. I am hoping that you are not offended but I am asking if we should also be refusing to take the gift of eternal life because it is perversion as it is being written in the Exodus. Yes. Merry Christmas everyone from Harsha. Yes.

[MitzaLizalor]

I can see where you're going wrong. There is a difference between giving someone a new thing and restoring something they had before. When God created Adam there was no death, just as God intended. By ignoring God and listening to his wife Adam introduced death into the universe for the first time and for everyone.

GENESIS 3 .KJV . context
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

For evolutionists, this is probably nonsense. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating: DO WE ALL DIE? Yes. There are different circumstances of death some, presented in The Bible as a new thing, are very unpleasant and a consequence of doing things (burning incense for example) in a new way not commanded by God. And God responds with a new thing of His own:

NUMBERS 16 .KJV . context
30 If the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
35 And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.

Christmas gifts given in a spirit of disobedience, offering new or novel applications of God's Inerrant Word, emulate the spirit of Korah.
. "Hey, look at that new idol" or
. ".. incense burner" or
. ".. weird stuff that gets hot when you blow on it!" the heathen will say.
. . ."Let's get some for —— for Jul" or
. . .".. Joyeux Noël" or
. . .".. the Solstice!"
The whole point is the novelty of such gifts. New things. These are pagan sentiments.


There is nothing pagan about Jesus. He is not serving up novelty, as He did with Korah.–.an undesirable outcome I'm sure you'll agree.–.but restoring something we had lost.

I CORINTHIANS 15 .KJV . context
17 if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

This is a different category of giving. Not the acquisitive gift of novelty, the new thing, but surrender to being bought by God as His property and restoration of our status as intended from the outset. Jesus offers us the gift of servitude and the opportunity to praise Him forever. Not something new, like the latest VR suit and a couple of tesla-leotards which would encourage activities He never intended for us, but something restored.

I CORINTHIANS 7 .KJV . context
22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

This is the true meaning of Christmas.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by Harsha Shah

Yes, Miss Basilissa, it is I Harsha Shah and I am posing a question to you. Yes. I am hoping that you are not offended but I am finding all this very confusing. Yes. I am. Yes. You are saying that it is perfectly all right to give gifts but not to receive them.

Yes. I have been reading your Bible and yes, the Exodus quote is very clear "Thou shalt take no gift". Yes. This is very clear. Now I am finding in the New Testament that the christian afterlife is a gift. Yes. It is in the letter to Romans Chapter 6, verse 23. Over there I am reading this: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yes. I am hoping that you are not offended but I am asking if we should also be refusing to take the gift of eternal life because it is perversion as it is being written in the Exodus. Yes. Merry Christmas everyone from Harsha. Yes.

My dearest Harsha, of course we cannot reject a gift from God (unless someone really, really, really wants to burn in Hell for eternity, which would be weird).

The answer is obvious. THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE HOLY BIBLE. If something seems like a contradiction, that means you are reading it wrong. Obviously, Exodus 23:8 talks about gifts from people, and the rule does not apply to gifts from God. God created all rules, which means He is above all rules, which means rules do not apply to Him and His actions.

I will pray for your confused soul. Maybe there is hope for you and you can still receive the gift of eternal life, preferably in a separate but equal part of Heaven.

[refridgerator]

Thank you for your clarification. I didn't give any gifts this Christmas.

The problem now is that I am considered some kind of pariah in my family.

Merry Christmas.

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by refridgerator

Thank you for your clarification. I didn't give any gifts this Christmas.

The problem now is that I am considered some kind of pariah in my family.

Merry Christmas.

This is excellent news! Jesus had exactly this in mind all those two millennia ago!

Matthew 10:35-36
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer