[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Aerospace Engineer

Absolutely my claims have been refuted. His ascent into heaven, and eventually ours, is the final departure from the earth we lived. We will turn back and take our final look at the earth in which we live, which was created, in its pure and true form... flat.

Thanks for replying. I have another question, hope you don't mind..



.FIRMAMENT

We know that resting above the world there is a firmament. God explains that it is there, provides some details about its construction (such as its strength). When Jesus ascended into Heaven—which is above the firmament and not normally visible—He was able to pass through, possibly via a window. As an engineer, are you able to suggest how a dome structure would be affected by windows? There is a reason why I'm asking connected with another thread concerning the possible shape of the firmament. Would a less regular shape than the dome I've used for my illustrations be less compromised by opening windows?

• . . • . . • . . • . . •

Jesus’ ascension is a critical element in Christian faith and the historical record has several important events to show us that Heaven is just up there above the sky and that it does become visible on occasions.

MARK'S EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT

Mark 16:19 KJV So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

When I look up Heaven is not visible. The firmament is opaque. But Mark could see Jesus not only ascend into Heaven but where He was located when He got there. The firmament had opened momentarily.

LUKE'S

Luke 24:46-51 KJV [Jesus speaking] Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Elsewhere Luke has given more detail concerning Jesus and His reception into Heaven during which more than just a window was opened. Engineers often say that there is no firmament, nowhere for Jesus to ascend into, and that therefore this account is a deliberate and knowing lie. Especially electrical engineers for some reason. But what they overlook is that there are other instances of Heaven opening and more than just one witness of this occurrence! Later, Stephen also saw what was going on in Heaven because the sky opened sufficiently for at least a glimpse of Jesus. This is how we know He is in Heaven now!

STEPHEN SAW IT TOO

Acts 7:54-56 KJV CONTEXT When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he [Stephen] being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

If the sky were transparent, as I believe is taught in secularist schools, Heaven above would be visible all the time. Faith would be unnecessary and Salvation would be set back by centuries. So what is meant by "Heaven opening" like does it open like a clam shell, which would give a pretty wide angle of view? Or could parts of the firmament become transparent briefly, like that smart glass or something?

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by Aerospace Engineer

Absolutely my claims have been refuted. His ascent into heaven, and eventually ours, is the final departure from the earth we lived. We will turn back and take our final look at the earth in which we live, which was created, in its pure and true form... flat.

This is excellent news for Jesus. And - if we consider that you must have been a sinner of the worst kind by persecuting Christians - this becomes even more excellent news for you regarding your future position in Heaven, IF you persist.

Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

The worse the sinner, the more there is joy over him, the more prestigious his place in Heaven shall be. These last posts are a moving testimony of the power of Jesus.



Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Des]

Originally Posted by Aerospace Engineer

Absolutely my claims have been refuted. His ascent into heaven, and eventually ours, is the final departure from the earth we lived. We will turn back and take our final look at the earth in which we live, which was created, in its pure and true form... flat.

Are you here about the sound system on my jet? Because I've been telling you people for a week now that you aren't going to fix it over the phone, and you certainly aren't going to fix t over the internet.

[mountainmike57]

Well, I have seen LOTS of pictures from space that show a ROUND earth. How can you explain that. Gravity is what keeps us from flying off into space along with the atmosphere. We would not be here if God did not make the earth PERFECT for us. The flatness is only because you can only see to the curve of the sky. That is the reason you even could have International flight...otherwise you would fly off the edge...since it is past the horizon...as far as you can see

Sorry, but science does prove that there is a round earth....but so do pictures from space..

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by mountainmike57

Well, I have seen LOTS of pictures from space that show a ROUND earth. How can you explain that. Gravity is what keeps us from flying off into space along with the atmosphere. We would not be here if God did not make the earth PERFECT for us. The flatness is only because you can only see to the curve of the sky. That is the reason you even could have International flight...otherwise you would fly off the edge...since it is past the horizon...as far as you can see

Sorry, but science does prove that there is a round earth....but so do pictures from space..

Dear Mike,

I have also seen many photographs of 'planets' from space. Here is one for you:



It is the 'moon' called Pandora. It is very detailed and believable. I'd like to ask you if it is real because there are many photographs of it. Then compare it to the photos of 'planet' Earth and tell me what the difference is.

Do you really trust second-hand information or do you trust Jesus?



2 Samuel 22:31
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by Aerospace Engineer

you people are relentless. I bet you can't have a single conversation without it ending with "have you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior"? The personalities of a broom closet lol.

I said what I came to say. I have no demons. I am a very happy person, much happier than when I was being suppressed. You simply do not believe in free will do you?

I promise the day I'm unhappy with my decision to abandon religion, I'll walk to the end of the earth and jump off. 😆

Good day.

Welcome friend. While I took the time from from my busy schedule of Praising Jesus to read some of your jibber Jabber, your claims have all been nothing more than '...because I said so...' where as we have the writings of the actual creator to back us up. The difference here being you are using made up stories and trying to repudiate accepted fact that is over 6,000 year old. Are you 6,0000 years old? I did not think so. You've sat in a classroom and listened to a guy tell you lies for a paycheck all as part of of the liebral agenda to destroy decency and the Christian way.
Do not go to the ends of the Earth and jump off. God and this Church can Save you.

[mountainmike57]

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

Dear Mike,

I have also seen many photographs of 'planets' from space. Here is one for you:



It is the 'moon' called Pandora. It is very detailed and believable. I'd like to ask you if it is real because there are many photographs of it. Then compare it to the photos of 'planet' Earth and tell me what the difference is.

Do you really trust second-hand information or do you trust Jesus?



2 Samuel 22:31
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

Sorry again. But REALLY????????????

I tend to look with my EYES....... Sorry. I am going to drop off this....
Obviously you have never flown in a plane..... When you are 34000 ft above the earth...you can see the HORIZON..... The horizon is only as far as YOU can see...not where the earth ends. SHOW ME MORE... if you dare.
I am a TRUE Christian........ and a scientist. Sorry, but you need to really check your sources..... And STOP sending me infractions...
Obviously this is SLANTED publication. Don't worry. I'll go quietly..... Please DO NOT send me ANY MORE Messages.

[mountainmike57]

Originally Posted by mountainmike57

Sorry again. But REALLY????????????

I tend to look with my EYES....... Sorry. I am going to drop off this....
Obviously you have never flown in a plane..... When you are 34000 ft above the earth...you can see the HORIZON..... The horizon is only as far as YOU can see...not where the earth ends. SHOW ME MORE... if you dare.
I am a TRUE Christian........ and a scientist. Sorry, but you need to really check your sources..... And STOP sending me infractions...
Obviously this is SLANTED publication. Don't worry. I'll go quietly..... Please DO NOT send me ANY MORE Messages.

Also,... THere is NO scripture that proves the earth is FLAT... I dare you to show me ONE. You are just like the people that told Columbus he would fly off the earth... REALLY?

Here is a good verse:
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Read 2 Peter 3

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by mountainmike57

Well, I have seen LOTS of pictures from space that show a ROUND earth. How can you explain that. Gravity is what keeps us from flying off into space along with the atmosphere. We would not be here if God did not make the earth PERFECT for us. The flatness is only because you can only see to the curve of the sky. That is the reason you even could have International flight...otherwise you would fly off the edge...since it is past the horizon...as far as you can see

Sorry, but science does prove that there is a round earth....but so do pictures from space..

Hi Mike! Do this. Place a quarter (or better, a empty apple pie plate. I like apple pie, do you?) on a table. Paint it to look like one the artist renditions of how the Earth appears in the Heavens to God. Now, compare the two images. Doesn't the quarter (or apple pie plate, I just love hot pie) Don't they both look perfectly round? With edges?

If there were such a thing as 'gravity' it would pull uss to Chine or worse, pull the slants to America. Never happened, never will. That is because of 'Intelligent Pulling' which is not being drawn down into the hell fires of the Earth but rather God's loving hands, holding us in our place.

I can see about 20 miles on a good day, How far can you see Mike? I believe (and I'm no Biblical scholar) but the Earth is bigger than twenty miles. I certainly cannot see every person on Earth as I turn my head about standing in the place that I am.

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by mountainmike57

Also,... THere is NO scripture that proves the earth is FLAT... I dare you to show me ONE. You are just like the people that told Columbus he would fly off the earth... REALLY?

Here is a good verse:
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Read 2 Peter 3

How easy life would be and how many sinners would be Saved if people actually had the tiny amount of patience that it takes to 1) read through this entire thread and 2) actually read through the entire Bible.

Yours questions are valid. Had you taken the effort to go back just two (2) pages, you could see that your inquiries have been answered. Go to post #9950.



Proverbs 12:24
The hand of the diligent shall bear rule: but the slothful shall be under tribute.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

PS. I am sorry that I am a bit snappy, but the female members of my household are experiencing Leviticus 15:19-30 and it is most exhausting. I know it takes a lot of time understand A) that sin causes delusions B) sent by God and, thus, C) you cannot trust your observations. You can only trust the Bible.

[Aerospace Engineer]

If the sky were transparent, as I believe is taught in secularist schools, Heaven above would be visible all the time. Faith would be unnecessary and Salvation would be set back by centuries. So what is meant by "Heaven opening" like does it open like a clam shell, which would give a pretty wide angle of view? Or could parts of the firmament become transparent briefly, like that smart glass or something?

Well let's clear the air here. I am a born again Christian. While I may not leave behind my secular education (since I still want to make a living for my family), I may reconnect myself with the Word of the Lord. Hopefully the Lord may allow me to unify the teachings of Jesus and man in some small way.

It is known that God exists as a trinity; the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. On the third day, Jesus departed his physical body and ascended to heaven in his spiritual form. Therefore, he does not need a door or window to pass through the firmament to enter heaven. He is omnipresent, and He may travel to and from earth as he please.

For man, it is a different story. We must, of course, be greeted at the gates of heaven by St. Peter. Domes are beautiful structures that God has allowed us to invent. Many beautiful buildings of worship have been built with domes. However, for the longest time, the center circle piece was left removed, as this bore the greatest stress on the structure below it.



If a gate is to exist on the firmament, it will undoubtedly exist at the very top of it. This is, without dispute, directly above the north pole at the center of the flat earth.



I wonder if the north star is actually St. Peter himself, waiting to greet us at this gate.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by mountainmike57

Sorry again. But REALLY????????????

I tend to look with my EYES....... Sorry. I am going to drop off this....
Obviously you have never flown in a plane..... When you are 34000 ft above the earth...you can see the HORIZON..... The horizon is only as far as YOU can see...not where the earth ends. SHOW ME MORE... if you dare.
I am a TRUE Christian........ and a scientist. Sorry, but you need to really check your sources..... And STOP sending me infractions...
Obviously this is SLANTED publication. Don't worry. I'll go quietly..... Please DO NOT send me ANY MORE Messages.

Hello, dear!

It seems like you're the one who has never flown on a plane. Here is a picture (which I have already referenced a couple of pages ago), which I have taken from a plane flying from godless Europe to the Godly USA:



As you can see, the horizon is perfectly flat (you can compare the line of the horizon with the straight red line I drew on it).

Q.E.D., dear.

@Aerospace E.: I'd ask how long was the exposure in the second picture, but it seems (based on the URL) like it's a random internet photo, not your own. My camera doesn't allow exposures longer than 1/2 hour, which leaves rather meager star trails, and my Photoshop skills are not good enough to stitch more than one exposure into one image.

[Aerospace Engineer]

@Aerospace E.: I'd ask how long was the exposure in the second picture, but it seems (based on the URL) like it's a random internet photo, not your own. My camera doesn't allow exposures longer than 1/2 hour, which leaves rather meager star trails, and my Photoshop skills are not good enough to stitch more than one exposure into one image.

Indeed a google search. I absolutely love time exposure pictures of the night sky as it rotates around the earth.

There would be a way to determine the time exposure by measuring the arc-length of the light streak to get the angle across the sky, then dividing by the period of rotation of the earth. But of course, this only complies with the satan worshiping spherical model.

Luke 10:18 “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven..."
Acts 13:10 “You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?"

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by Aerospace Engineer

Indeed a google search. I absolutely love time exposure pictures of the night sky as it rotates around the earth.

There would be a way to determine the time exposure by measuring the arc-length of the light streak to get the angle across the sky, then dividing by the period of rotation of the earth. But of course, this only complies with the satan worshiping spherical model.

Luke 10:18 “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven..."
Acts 13:10 “You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?"

Yes, it seems like God created many things to confound and confuse us. Like the stuff that He created older than the Earth itself, that the godless scientist are trying to "date" using the potassium-argon method and other tools of Satan.

[TruthNotIgnorance]

This is not a photograph, this is a made up image.

Originally Posted by Elmer G. White

Dear Mike,

I have also seen many photographs of 'planets' from space. Here is one for you:



It is the 'moon' called Pandora. It is very detailed and believable. I'd like to ask you if it is real because there are many photographs of it. Then compare it to the photos of 'planet' Earth and tell me what the difference is.

Do you really trust second-hand information or do you trust Jesus?



2 Samuel 22:31
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by TruthNotIgnorance

This is not a photograph, this is a made up image.

Dear Ignorant,

Of course it is. That was the point. it is fiction but exactly as plausible as the 'images' of the 'globe' from the 'orbit'.

1 Peter 2:15
For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

I can assure you that also you can overcome your ignorance through prayer!




Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Aerospace Engineer

Domes are beautiful structures that God has allowed us to invent. Many beautiful buildings of worship have been built with domes. However, for the longest time, the center circle piece was left removed, as this bore the greatest stress on the structure below it … If a gate is to exist on the firmament, it will undoubtedly exist at the very top of it. This is, without dispute, directly above the north pole at the center of the flat earth.

Thank you for your comment. The Bible explains that there is more than one opening, from the historical record:

Genesis kjv
7:11-12 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
8:2-3 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

click to enlarge

I did use an example of a dome with multiple openings in another thread and we know that Heaven is supported by beams.
.
Psalms kjv
104:1b-5 O LORD my God thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
.
The photo shows beam structures which would support a dome regardless of its window count.

My question relates to other shapes. The reason is because various astrophysicist types are going around “oh yeah ¼million miles to the moon, 24trillion miles to the next sun pass the absinthe did I mention 3,000,000,000trillion miles to the Cartwheel galaxy?” and they deserve to be answered.

I Peter kjv
3:15b Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

There could be other shapes for the firmament. Its existence is certain, God has told us so we know its there, but could the astrophysicist be right? Could the moon be one distance above the earth, α-Centauri at a different distance and the Cartwheel galaxy farther still? I was reminded while looking at the Guggenheim museum recently but for the distances to be correct the shape would need to be even more unusual, I thought, like the roof of a big top.

There are other problems though. This "speed of light" thing. When the fabric of space was stretched out wouldn't that mean time was also altered? For the photons there would be no time so it actually takes zero time for a photon to reach us from anywhere. That is to say the same time from the Cartwheel galaxy as from the moon. There would be the same number of distance units but each unit would itself have been stretched.

Is this a feasible model for The Firmament?


click to enlarge

[Idiot Gaga Fangirl]

I can't quite tell if this website is serious or not. Can someone please clarify?

[Back against wall]

Originally Posted by YaaaaasGagaSlaaaaay

I can't quite tell if this website is serious or not. Can someone please clarify?

Can't tell if your stupid username is serious or not. Could you please clarify?

Hello Unsaved Trash, and to God's favorite forum!
Could you please proceed to The introduction forum and create a thread there, to show an ounce of respect, to introduce yourself?

And please do follow the instructions on the top of that page!

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by YaaaaasGagaSlaaaaay

I can't quite tell if this website is serious or not...

Everyone here treats all religions with the respect they deserve, and appreciate it when their visitors do the same.

As Brother BAW pointed out, calling yourself "asslay" may not be the best way to find common ground.