Christian history forum This forum is dedicated to the history of Christianity, and its impact on the history of the world. |
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Landover Security Superviser Asset Loss Prevention and Personal Security Expert NOT angry and positively NOT Gay
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-16-2010, 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
They were not, Booby is a little of the mark there to say the least.
And Catholic Zealots who persecuted anyone not of the "church" Is that that America you want? One where the baptist "church" would be unable to exist?
One of those Pirate you need to thank for modern America is Francis Drake. His exploits were legendary, making him a hero to the English but a pirate to the Spaniards to whom he was known as El Draque, 'Draque' being the Spanish pronunciation of 'Drake'. His name in Latin was Franciscus Draco ('Francis the Dragon'). King Philip II was claimed to have offered a reward of 20,000 ducats, the equivalent of about $6.5M today, for his life.
What would the map of Europe look like with out Drake and the other Pirates? Just how powerful would Catholicism be today? It is not just the North Americans that owe a debit to the Pirates, without them the reformation would have been reversed, the Baptist church would not exist, more of us would be speaking Spanish, and no one would be questioning the authority of the Pope.
Look at the sate of the Latin American countries, compare them to your own.
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You missing the obvious point; once Spain forsaken it REAL Christian Free Market roots and embraced the pro-socialists Nanny State mentality Spain was doomed. Drake was just the invisible hand the of market doing some creative destruction. Where hard working REAL Spaniards like Cortez and Pizzaro harassed by pirates while they were preempting the growing menace of the Aztec and Incan rouge states? NO! (BTW Both Cortez and Pizzaro were privately funded public enterprises, more Free Market). Once the Spanish government turned its back on the Conquistador wealth creating machine and turned toward the government controlled Tericos, the economic crash was inevitable.
It was simple, Conquistadors conquered Mexico with 300 men, Spanish socialist Tercos, unable to conquer the Dutch with 12,000 men.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-16-2010, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe
You missing the obvious point; once Spain forsaken it REAL Christian
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Considering the position of LBC is that Catholics are not Christians ( Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians) your argument falls over at that point.
Quote:
It was simple, Conquistadors conquered Mexico with 300 men, Spanish socialist Tercos, unable to conquer the Dutch with 12,000 men.
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Mmm what was the difference in armaments between the native peoples of Mexico and the Spaniards?
Did the same difference exist between the Dutch and the Spanish? NO!
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-16-2010, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
Mmm what was the difference in armaments between the native peoples of Mexico and the Spaniards?
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Cortez regularly faced Mexican armies of 10,000 plus. Do you really think a single shot musket, steel armor and swords is going to let one man defeat 1,000? No, that was creative thinking encouraged by free market rewards.
Greed is good and no one doubts the Conquistadors were mighty greedy men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
Did the same difference exist between the Dutch and the Spanish? NO!
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The Dutch Jo Freddie we are talking about. The stonner hooker capital of the world.
If the Duke of Alba had an army of Americans during the 80 years war the Duke of Alba would have liberated Holland in eight days and the Duke of Alba would have been welcomed into Antwerp with flowers and candy. Instead the lazy government "workers" in the Spanish Tercos regiments slacked off and the war dragged on while the soldiers would go on strike for more pay and benefits.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-16-2010, 06:25 PM
I notice you have stopped trying to claim they were what you would call REAL Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe
Cortez regularly faced Mexican armies of 10,000 plus. Do you really think a single shot musket, steel armor and swords is going to let one man defeat 1,000?
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The gun was a strong enough weapon of terror that Cortez did not need superior numbers. He knew it gave him such a powerful tool that when they were running out of gun power he sent his men to get Sulphur from a volcano to make more.
Quote:
The Dutch Jo Freddie we are talking about. The stonner hooker capital of the world.
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No that maybe what you consider the Dutch to be now, but it was very different in the 16th century.
As such a great fan of the free market do you not realise the benefit and boost to the economies of the North American colonies like the port of Charleston that trade with the Pirate gave at a time when they were starved of supplies from Europe.
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By selling stolen silks, satins, spices and other merchandise in ports and spending their booty in the colonies, pirates created an economic boom, helping struggling settlements and making Port Royale in Jamaica and Charleston, S.C., huge mercantile centres. They didn’t bury their treasure, they spent it, helping colonies survive that couldn’t get the money and supplies they needed from Europe.
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Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-16-2010, 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
I notice you have stopped trying to claim they were what you would call REAL Christians
The gun was a strong enough weapon of terror that Cortez did not need superior numbers. He knew it gave him such a powerful tool that when they were running out of gun power he sent his men to get Sulphur from a volcano to make more.
No that maybe what you consider the Dutch to be now, but it was very different in the 16th century.
As such a great fan of the free market do you not realise the benefit and boost to the economies of the North American colonies like the port of Charleston that trade with the Pirate gave at a time when they were starved of supplies from Europe.
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Are you debating again Mr. Noodlebrain? Haven't I warned you about that?
Listen: WE ARE RIGHT and YOU ARE WRONG. Got it?
Don't make me have to ban you again.
Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-16-2010, 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel
Are you debating again Mr. Noodlebrain? Haven't I warned you about that?
Listen: WE ARE RIGHT and YOU ARE WRONG. Got it?
Don't make me have to ban you again.
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I am not debating religion in this case Zekie Boy, apart from making the point that if it was not for the Pirates the Church in Landover would look like this
The rest of the discussion is about the fact that is was the Pirates that helped the economies of the North American settlements at a time when Europe would or could not. They also fought alongside those settlers against the British to help found your independent country. They devloped rules that are built into your constitution.
If you love what America is, and what it stands for, you our thanks in part to the Pirates. Now the rest of the world may not feel so grateful to them that is true.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-16-2010, 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
And Catholic Zealots who persecuted anyone not of the "church" Is that that America you want? One where the baptist "church" would be unable to exist?
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If you switch the religions, yes.
"And Baptist Zealots who persecuted anyone not of the church. Is that the America I want? YES! One where the Catholic "church" would be unable to exist? GLORY BE HALLELUJAH YES!!!"
Watch the #1 Televangelist Gospel Hour in the World! "Turn or Burn: Accept Christ or Go to Hell with Rev. Jim Osborne." Check your local cable listings.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne
If you switch the religions, yes.
"And Baptist Zealots who persecuted anyone not of the church. Is that the America I want? YES! One where the Catholic "church" would be unable to exist? GLORY BE HALLELUJAH YES!!!"
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But that would not be the case if the Spanish had kept control of, and expanded, their North American colonies would it now Mr Osborne?
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Landover Security Superviser Asset Loss Prevention and Personal Security Expert NOT angry and positively NOT Gay
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
But that would not be the case if the Spanish had kept control of, and expanded, their North American colonies would it now Mr Osborne?
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If it wasn't pirates Jesus would have chosen something else to destroy the Spanish. Not to mention the Spanish had all of the New World the wanted. For example the Spanish showed no interest in California until the mid 18th Century, long after the defeat of Caribbean piracy, when they formed the famous Presido and Mission system to stop the Russians.
Once an empire turns its back on private enterprise and create social entitlements that empire is doomed.
Time to reclaim our FREEDOM from the “Mullah in Chief” and his growing activist voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe
Once an empire turns its back on private enterprise and create social entitlements that empire is doomed.
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What was the trade the Pirates took part in that kept the North American Colonies going and made them prosper if it was not private enterprise?
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
What was the trade the Pirates took part in that kept the North American Colonies going and made them prosper if it was not private enterprise?
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I think you overstate the pirate contrabution to the American Colonies. Tobacco was the major cash source in the south and timber and maple syrup were the major cash source in the North. Piracy got to be such a problem that the Atlantic trade was almost stopped by it in the early 18th century, hardly a good thing for the American colonies. It was the colony of Virgina that sent the two warships that hunted down and killed Blackbeard (or as your faith puts it, called Blackbeard home to Davy Jones locker)
Time to reclaim our FREEDOM from the “Mullah in Chief” and his growing activist voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe
I think you overstate the pirate contrabution to the American Colonies. Tobacco was the major cash source in the south and timber and maple syrup were the major cash source in the North. Piracy got to be such a problem that the Atlantic trade was almost stopped by it in the early 18th century, hardly a good thing for the American colonies. It was the colony of Virgina that sent the two warships that hunted down and killed Blackbeard (or as your faith puts it, called Blackbeard home to Davy Jones locker)
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Pirates explored and mapped new territories, expanded trade routes, and protected the British and French colonies in South America, North America and the Caribbean from Spain at a time when Britain and France couldn't afford to.
They also supplied colonies with food, cloth, spices, medicines and other goods colonists couldn't get or couldn't afford from other sources.
Money raked in from sale of these plundered items was spent by pirates locally - drinking, gambling and womanizing - thus bolstering the colonies' economy.
In order to prevent disputes, most pirate crews imposed rules of conduct upon themselves. These sets of rules were called charters.
One of the most important rules regarded the electing of the captain. Captains had absolute authority during raids, but could be removed from authority by a vote of the crew if they disapproved of his actions.
The following is a charter drawn up by the crew of a pirate captain named Bartholemew Roberts:
- Every man shall have an equal vote in affairs of moment. He shall have an equal title to the fresh provisions or strong liquors at any time seized, and shall use them at pleasure unless a scarcity makes it necessary for the common good that a retrenchment may be voted.
- Every man shall be called fairly in turn by the list on board of prizes, because over and above their proper share, they are allowed a shift of clothes. but if they defraud the company to the value of even one dollar in plate, jewels or money, they shall be marooned. If any man rob another he shall have his nose and ears slit, and be put ashore where he shall be sure to encounter hardships.
- None shall game for money, either with dice or cards.
- The lights and candles shall be put out at eight at night, and if any of the crew desire to drink after that hour they shall sit upon the open deck without lights.
- Each man shall keep his piece, cutlass and pistols at all times clean and ready for action.
- No boy or woman to be allowed amongst them. If any man shall be found seducing one of the latter sex and carrying her to sea in disguise, he shall suffer death.
- He that shall desert the ship or his quarters in time of battle shall be punished by death or marooning.
- None shall strike another aboard the ship, but every man’s quarrel shall be ended on shore by sword or pistol in this manner: at the word of command from the Quartermaster, each man being previously placed back to back, shall turn and fire immediately. If any man do not, the Quartermaster shall knock the piece out of his hand. If both miss their aim, they shall take to their cutlasses, and he that draws first blood shall be declared the victor.
- No man shall talk of breaking up their way of living till each has a share of £1,000. Every man who shall become a cripple or lose a limb in the service shall have eight hundred pieces of eight from the common stock, and for lesser hurts proportionately.
- The Captain and the Quartermaster shall each receive two shares of a prize, the Master Gunner and Boatswain, one and one quarter, and private gentlemen of fortune one share each.
- The musicians shall have rest on the Sabbath Day only, by right, on all other days, by favour only.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 04:40 PM
The first thing (pirates tried to) do is persuade everyone to give them everything without having to killing anyone. It was enlightened self-interest since any battle posed the risk of a pirate being killed or injured. Plus, it was simply good PR. They wanted the information to go out that if you cut sails and give us what we need, we'll let you go. In fact, there are stories of pirate captains inviting the crew of boarded ships to join them.
Even governments, who later turned against them, utilized pirates, funding them as privateers to search out and punish enemies. While a few pirates were wise enough to take their riches and retire early to a life as plantation owner, many died at the end of a noose, at sea or in battle. Some who helped defend against against British attacks in early 19th century received land grants for their services.
With the world atwitter over, "Pirates of the Caribbean:" the question arises - how authentic is Johnny Depp's dashing Capt. Jack Sparrow?
Well His dress is authentic - except for his eye make-up. That's about it
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#63 on Forbes'...but #1 in Jesus's Heart
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 05:29 PM
Lest anyone think that all our conceptions are wrong, it must be pointed out that many pirates were indeed very wicked men. In fact, the city of Port Royal, Jamaica was pronounced to be “the wickedest city on Earth” (Rankin 118). It had become known across the world as a den and haven for pirates. They off-loaded their ill-gotten gains there, and spent many nights in a state of drunken debauchery over the years, until the sea swallowed the entire city in the aftermath of an underwater earthquake. The modern United States Marines were given a ceremonial sword to thank them for their defeat of the Barbary pirates. It is a symbol they still wear today, representing their triumph over those particularly evil men. The reputation of piracy is not undeserved.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
Problems caused by the reduction in the revenue flow from the Americas due to Piracy.
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Pasta Boy, you have elsewhere on this forum claimed that Pirates only distributed candy to children. Yet here you admit that they stole from Kings, no doubt killing many fine men who tried to preserve their monarch's assets.
Please explain.
Bible boring? Nonsense!
Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
You can't be a Christian if you don't know God's Word!
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer
Pasta Boy, you have elsewhere on this forum claimed that Pirates only distributed candy to children. Yet here you admit that they stole from Kings, no doubt killing many fine men who tried to preserve their monarch's assets.
Please explain.
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As I said..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
The first thing (pirates tried to) do is persuade everyone to give them everything without having to killing anyone. It was enlightened self-interest since any battle posed the risk of a pirate being killed or injured. Plus, it was simply good PR. They wanted the information to go out that if you cut sails and give us what we need, we'll let you go. In fact, there are stories of pirate captains inviting the crew of boarded ships to join them.
Even governments, who later turned against them, utilized pirates, funding them as privateers to search out and punish enemies. While a few pirates were wise enough to take their riches and retire early to a life as plantation owner, many died at the end of a noose, at sea or in battle. Some who helped defend against against British attacks in early 19th century received land grants for their services.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
As I said..
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So you admit that they murdered other men for material goods.
I don't see anything in that about giving candy to children. Probably used to entice them below decks, anyway!
Bible boring? Nonsense!
Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
You can't be a Christian if you don't know God's Word!
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Landover Security Superviser Asset Loss Prevention and Personal Security Expert NOT angry and positively NOT Gay
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-17-2010, 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer
So you admit that they murdered other men for material goods.
I don't see anything in that about giving candy to children. Probably used to entice them below decks, anyway!
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Goes without saying if one of the articles of their charter was no sodomizing young boys. What were these pirates, sea going Catholics?
Time to reclaim our FREEDOM from the “Mullah in Chief” and his growing activist voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-18-2010, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer
So you admit that they murdered other men for material goods.
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Ye have a problem wit' this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Freddie
The first thing (pirates tried to) do is persuade everyone to give them everything without having to killing anyone. It was enlightened self-interest since any battle posed the risk of a pirate being killed or injured. Plus, it was simply good PR. They wanted the information to go out that if you cut sails and give us what we need, we'll let you go. In fact, there are stories of pirate captains inviting the crew of boarded ships to join them.
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but not wit' this
Numbers 31
Quote:
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
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Yarr thundering festering hogshead.
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Re: North American? speak English? Thank a Pirate. -
09-24-2010, 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe
I think you overstate the pirate contrabution to the American Colonies. Tobacco was the major cash source in the south and timber and maple syrup were the major cash source in the North. Piracy got to be such a problem that the Atlantic trade was almost stopped by it in the early 18th century, hardly a good thing for the American colonies. It was the colony of Virgina that sent the two warships that hunted down and killed Blackbeard (or as your faith puts it, called Blackbeard home to Davy Jones locker)
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unlike some who demonize the USA). However, the guy on the nickle would agree with me that the USA has little to do with Christianity. Even Mohler, leader of The Southern Baptist Seminary, said:
There's a difference between a Christian nation, and a nation predominantly populated by Christians.
or something close to that
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