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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 02:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post
1611 is the date when the translation of the true version of the Bible was complete, but it's obviously not the date that the Bible was actually written. One has to remember that the KJV1611 wasn't completed over night, it took several years.

I suppose I haven't searched for LBC's views on the original Hebrew and Greek texts. Do you accept that previous version of the Bible are holy, or is it only the KJV1611?
Jesus, the Prophets, and the Apostles spoke in other languages, yes. But they thought in English as they received the Holy Word. It is all part of God's Divine Plan. Thus, the KJV 1611 is the perfect Bible.


II Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power



The man who is being progressively sanctified will inescapably sanctify his home, school, politics, economics, science, and all things else by understanding and interpreting all things in terms of the Word of God and by bringing all things under the Dominion of Christ the King. -R.J. Rushdoony
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 02:28 AM

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Originally Posted by Jedediah View Post
Jesus, the Prophets, and the Apostles spoke in other languages, yes. But they thought in English as they received the Holy Word. It is all part of God's Divine Plan. Thus, the KJV 1611 is the perfect Bible.
Do you have a biblical passage to support that statement? I wasn't aware of English being a language during the days of the Old and New Testament.


Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13



Run to the KJV1611!
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 03:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post
It's not a 100% perfect translation of the original languages. There are a number of translation errors and other places where italics are added to make things more clear that didn't exist in the original greek/hebrew. Not that I'm saying the KJV1611 isn't the only true version of the Bible, just a clarification point.
No, it is perfect, and it is blasphemy for you to say otherwise!

But if you don't believe me, look here: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible...king_james.htm

I'll gladly listen to your objections after you've read everything on that page (including all the pages it links to) and have a detailed response to every point brought up in all of them.
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 03:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
No, it is perfect, and it is blasphemy for you to say otherwise!

But if you don't believe me, look here: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible...king_james.htm

I'll gladly listen to your objections after you've read everything on that page (including all the pages it links to) and have a detailed response to every point brought up in all of them.
Does it have to be in one post, or can it be a series of posts? I certainly don't mind visiting all of those links. I don't think it will be too much of an effort considering all of the broken/unclickable links. I don't see why you think I'm objecting to the authenticity of the KJV1611. Do translation errors and a few additions from the Latin Vulgate negate the perfection of the KJV1611? The translators themselves saw fit to add annotations to the KJV1611.


Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13



Run to the KJV1611!
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 03:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post
Does it have to be in one post, or can it be a series of posts? I certainly don't mind visiting all of those links. I don't think it will be too much of an effort considering all of the broken/unclickable links. I don't see why you think I'm objecting to the authenticity of the KJV1611. Do translation errors and a few additions from the Latin Vulgate negate the perfection of the KJV1611? The translators themselves saw fit to add annotations to the KJV1611.
What is the perfect translation to you, friend? What version would you prefer we study if not the KJV?


Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.



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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 03:59 AM

A language spoken by man at the time, no. The Textus Receptus and Masoretic Hebrew were simply placeholders until such a time that the KJV 1611 be written. The divinely Inspired authors of the original manuscripts received the Word such that future Inspired translators would preserve the Bible as they chose their English words.

Psalm 12: 6-7
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.



II Peter 1:20-21
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Upon completion of the translation, the task was completed and all the subsequent English translations were not made by Inspired translators.

The KJV 1611 constitutes an advanced revelation of the Word. I take it that you reject the notion that a translation can be divinely Inspired. Consider this: There are more than 100 quotations of the Old Testament in the New Testament, which were originally written in Hebrew and then translated into Greek. If you say “no translation could be inspired,” you’ve thrown more than 100 verses out of the New Testament in all the manuscripts, including the “original manuscripts.” The “original manuscripts” of the New Testament were written in Greek, and their Old Testament quotations were translations of the Hebrew.


"Translate" appears five times in the Bible:

II Samuel 3:10
To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.


Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Every translation in our Final Authority on all matters is an improvement over the original. If you are a simple Bible believer you will have no trouble accepting this. If you worship education or just hate to be wrong you will reject this Bible Fact as easily as you have rejected every Bible Fact that you couldn't agree with.


It is undeniable that America has a special role in the Divine Plan. God's Chosen Nation, if you will.


II Samuel 7:10
Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,


Upon translation to English, the Bible was refined to the point where it needs to be up until the conclusion of the End Times. Like I said before, the KJV 1611 is the perfect Bible. The Bible was always intended to be written in English.


II Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power



The man who is being progressively sanctified will inescapably sanctify his home, school, politics, economics, science, and all things else by understanding and interpreting all things in terms of the Word of God and by bringing all things under the Dominion of Christ the King. -R.J. Rushdoony
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 03:59 AM

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Originally Posted by Levi Jones View Post
What is the perfect translation to you, friend? What version would you prefer we study if not the KJV?
A perfect translation would be complete without error in translation or syntax from the original Greek and Hebrew versions of the Bible. Let me quote William Combs when defining an error in regards to translation, he writes,

"We might begin by looking at the dictionary’s definition of error:
“(1a) an act or condition of ignorant or imprudent deviation from a
code of behavior; (1b) an act involving an unintentional deviation from
truth or accuracy; (1c) an act that through ignorance, deficiency, or accident departs from or fails to achieve what should be done.”10 As far as Bible translation is concerned, we might simplify by saying that “an error
is any failure to convey accurately the meaning of the autographs.” If
a translation does not accurately convey the meaning of the autographs,
it must be in error. For example, any translation that fails at any point to
convey accurately what Paul said in his epistle to the Romans is in error
at that point. The kinds of errors a translation might contain can be roughly grouped into three areas: (1) errors originating from the Hebrew/
Aramaic and Greek texts used by the translators; (2) errors produced
by a faulty translation; and (3) errors generated in the
transmission of a translation."

The paper is very interesting. I just find it troubling that a version of the Bible a person reads seems to determine whether you think a person is true Christian or not.

Here's a link to the Combs paper that may or may not be removed depending on how you interpret the paper.

http://www.dbts.edu/journals/1999/Combs.pdf


Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13



Run to the KJV1611!
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:13 AM

Sounds like you need to spend less time reading Combs and spend a little more time reading the words of early church fathers:

"For philosophy is the material of the world’s wisdom, the rash interpreter of the nature and dispensation of God. Indeed heresies are themselves instigated by philosophy… What indeed has Athens to do with Jerusalem? What has the Academy to do with the Church? What have heretics to do with Christians? Our instruction comes from the porch of Solomon, who had himself taught that the Lord should be sought in simplicity of heart. Away with all attempts to produce a Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic Christianity! We want no curious disputation after possessing Christ Jesus, no inquisition after receiving the gospel! When we believe, we desire no further belief. For this is our first article of faith, that there is nothing which we ought to believe besides."

-Tertullian of Carthage


II Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power



The man who is being progressively sanctified will inescapably sanctify his home, school, politics, economics, science, and all things else by understanding and interpreting all things in terms of the Word of God and by bringing all things under the Dominion of Christ the King. -R.J. Rushdoony
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post

I don't see why you think I'm objecting to the authenticity of the KJV1611. Do translation errors and a few additions from the Latin Vulgate negate the perfection of the KJV1611?
Those things would indeed negate the perfection of a Bible translation, but they most definitely do not appear in the KJV. Take your lies elsewhere.
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedediah View Post
Sounds like you need to spend less time reading Combs and spend a little more time reading the words of early church fathers:

"For philosophy is the material of the world’s wisdom, the rash interpreter of the nature and dispensation of God. Indeed heresies are themselves instigated by philosophy… What indeed has Athens to do with Jerusalem? What has the Academy to do with the Church? What have heretics to do with Christians? Our instruction comes from the porch of Solomon, who had himself taught that the Lord should be sought in simplicity of heart. Away with all attempts to produce a Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic Christianity! We want no curious disputation after possessing Christ Jesus, no inquisition after receiving the gospel! When we believe, we desire no further belief. For this is our first article of faith, that there is nothing which we ought to believe besides."

-Tertullian of Carthage
I don't see what you're trying to say. The paper is from a Baptist seminary and uses biblical evidence. The church fathers certainly weren't reading the KJV1611. Tertullian of Carthage could very likely still have been reading from the original Greek and Hebrew texts, although he lived after the New Testament was complete. My only argument is that the original texts are the only completely perfect texts. I gather that you didn't even look at the link.


Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13



Run to the KJV1611!
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post
I don't see what you're trying to say. The paper is from a Baptist seminary and uses biblical evidence. The church fathers certainly weren't reading the KJV1611. Tertullian of Carthage could very likely still have been reading from the original Greek and Hebrew texts, although he lived after the New Testament was complete. My only argument is that the original texts are the only completely perfect texts. I gather that you didn't even look at the link.
Of course we aren't going to click your Satanic link.

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.

1 Timothy 6:20-21 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:37 AM

And I gather you have not read my previous post. Otherwise, you would realize that your flaccid arguments will not work here, boy.


II Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power



The man who is being progressively sanctified will inescapably sanctify his home, school, politics, economics, science, and all things else by understanding and interpreting all things in terms of the Word of God and by bringing all things under the Dominion of Christ the King. -R.J. Rushdoony
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
Those things would indeed negate the perfection of a Bible translation, but they most definitely do not appear in the KJV. Take your lies elsewhere.
Let's talk about one of those links on the site you posted in regards to a mistranslation. Here is a specific point from http://www.av1611.org/kjv/easter.html in regards to the word "Easter" being mistranslated.

"We see then, from studying what the BIBLE has to say concerning the subject that the order of events went as follows:
  1. On the 14th of April the lamb was killed. This is the passover. No event following the 14th is ever referred to as the passover.
  2. On the morning of the 15th begins the days of unleavened bread, also known as the feast of unleavened bread.
It must also be noted that whenever the passover is mentioned in the New Testament, the reference is always to the meal, to be eaten on the night of April 14th not the entire week. The days of unleavened bread are NEVER referred to as the Passover. (It must be remembered that the angel of the Lord passed over Egypt on one night, not seven nights in a row."


Combs writes in his paper,


"Another clear example is found in Acts 12:4,
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered
him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to
bring him forth to the people.
Again, no one questions that the word translated “Easter” is actually
“Passover” (pavsca) since it is found in all manuscripts and all editions
of the TR. It is used 28 other times in the NT, and in every other instance
the translators of the KJV rendered it “Passover.” In the context of
Acts 12, Herod has just put James to death (v. 2), and when he saw that
it “pleased the Jews,” he proceeded to arrest Peter and kill him also (v.
3). However, because this happened during the Passover season,22
Herod decided to hold him in prison since he did not wish to pollute
the Jewish feast. All of this has nothing to do with Easter, the Christian
celebration of Christ’s resurrection. We are told that “the term Easter
was derived from the Anglo-Saxon ‘Eostre,’ the name of the goddess of
spring. In her honor sacrifices were offered at the time of the vernal
equinox. By the 8th cent. the term came to be applied to the anniversary
of Christ’s resurrection.”23 “Easter” in Acts 12:4 is an erroneous translation."



Now, which one is stating from the data of KJV1611?


Combs references Luke 22:1, “Now the feast of unleavened
bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.”



Is this a genuine reference, or is not actually in the KJV1611?










Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13



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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:49 AM

1 Timothy 6:20-21 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
1 Timothy 6:20-21 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


I'm simply using scripture to instruct.


Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13



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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


I'm simply using scripture to instruct.
Even Satan was able to twist Scripture to his own purposes. That doesn't make him right. Why do you love Satan?
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 04:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
Even Satan was able to twist Scripture to his own purposes. That doesn't make him right. Why do you love Satan?
Why do you use logical fallacies? Just because I'm pointing out something that is contrary to something you told me automatically makes me a someone who love Satan? I'm using scripture, so I'm twisting it. You're using scripture and it's not twisting in at all. In all of this, you fail to respond to any of the questions that I pose, another logical fallacy.


Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13



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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 05:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post
A perfect translation would be complete without error in translation or syntax from the original Greek and Hebrew versions of the Bible.
A complete sidestep of the original question. Allow me to repeat myself.

Which translation of the Bible do you consider to be the most correct?


Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.



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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 05:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latvija13 View Post
Why do you use logical fallacies? Just because I'm pointing out something that is contrary to something you told me automatically makes me a someone who love Satan? I'm using scripture, so I'm twisting it. You're using scripture and it's not twisting in at all. In all of this, you fail to respond to any of the questions that I pose, another logical fallacy.
The word "logic" is not in the Bible, and you will not confuse me with this philosophical mumbo-jumbo.

Colossians 2: 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
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Default Re: I like this one, but I'm not sure i have it right. - 04-06-2010, 05:23 AM

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
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