[WickedWitch]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

I have to say that I'm really enjoying reading this debate; there are valid points on both sides, both sides are arguing fairly and are backing up their claims to the best of their ability, and, gem of all gems, both are using intelligent arguments and grammar! That last point is a rarity (especially with the trolls that seem to find their way to this forum). Maybe I'll jump in at some point, but I see that Shol'va is certainly holding down the fort, as it were, quite well on his/her own. (Sorry, maybe you've mentioned your gender somewhere, but I seem to have missed it.)




That said, there is, however, one small (though irrelevant to this argument) statement I would like to make in regards to this post by On Your Knees:

Considering Christianity (including warped John 3:16 Christianity, and all other manner of False Christians) is the majority religion on the planet, with over 2 billion served, and is the dominant religion in all advanced countries, I wonder who is or is not sane here.

Sometimes "majority" means that all the idiots are on the same side.



There we go. Alie's done de-railing the debate, please continue.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

God and Jesus are one and the same. And Yahweh is not God.

I told you, I'm a pagan. And I hate your god because his very actions go against every sense of morality and reason and justice ingrained in me, not from my parents, or from the liberal media, or from any outside source, but the morality and reason and justice I developed on my own, that was partially with me at birth, and partially developed from my own experiences.

I'm also pagan, so nice to meet you.
I abhor the bible and its vicious, cruel teaching, but I really don't believe in the bible god. That is to say, I believe everything in the bible is complete and utter hogwash.

As a pagan, how come you seem to believe in the xtian god, jesus and hell? Or am I mistaken in what you were trying to say?

[shol'va]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

Could you give us a "scientific" reference for that? Or are you just going to claim whatever you believe is "a known fact"? Last time I checked, God answered prayers with a "yes" or a "no", not by taking a poll and deciding based upon how many others thought my prayer was a good idea. It's praying to God, not American Idol! (Though the latter likely suits you better, eh?)

I imagine you must support Global Orgasm Day, then? It would seem to fit neatly with your concept of how God works.

The last time you prayed, did you hear "yes" or "no"? No, God works in subtler ways then that. And unfortunatley I can't cite my source, because I completely forgot where I heard it. But I did hear it, and that's a fact. And Global Orgasm Day is just creepy.

I'm sorry if we confuse you. It's really quite simple.

A made-up god is a reflection of the maker. Therefore, you pray to whatever suits you at the moment, or a god of your own imaginings. You put your imagination above God. This makes you both a narcissist and an atheist, because you deny God by imagining your own gods.

Hardly. I don't make up gods, I pray to already established ones, which aren't actually separate gods at all, but part of One God, so basically every time I pray to Ra, Sekhmet etc. I pray to the one God. Tell me, do you not imagine your god as he is in the Old Testament, smiting, killing, etc? The god suits the person, as I like to say. Your personalities are violent and psychotic, so you go with a god that suits those qualities.

Considering Christianity (including warped John 3:16 Christianity, and all other manner of False Christians) is the majority religion on the planet, with over 2 billion served, and is the dominant religion in all advanced countries, I wonder who is or is not sane here.

I'm not condemning Christianity at all, only your brand. I'd bet about 0.01% of all Christians are so-called "True Christians" (aka radical extremists) and aroung 50% of the rest are conservative, but not with the wish to establish a theocracy.

After all, you're the one advocating genocide, not us. ("You're all taints that need to be WIPED OUT!" Who said that? Oh, yes. The "peace-loving" Pagan, known by his fruits. Uh-huh.)

Don't give me that. You've advocated genocide plenty of times in your espousal of Yahweh's deeds in the Old Testament. And I never claimed I loved peace, I'm pro-war, remember. I will fight against you and your false god in the War to come.

Friend, who knows the mind of God? No mortal man can. That is our point here at Landover; human reason can not possibly match’s God’s so the faithful must follow His Godly commands to the letter. Jesus tells me in my heart that all of it is for the better even if it appears to me to be otherwise.

I'm sorry if I appeared to say the I know the mind of God, I obviously don't.

If they reject Christ by not living long enough to repent of their depravity and accept Jesus as their personal savior they will go to hell, yes that is what God in The Bible says friend.

God says babie will go to hell? Where in the Bible does it ever say that?

Second; Friend, let me carefully explain this to you. This is not what I personally consider right or wrong. This is what God specifically says it right or wrong. If you have an issue with stoning sinners to death for their crimes against God then you have an issue with God. Since God calls for this it must be righteous and my own personal distaste is just my selfish humanity depravity.

If you do not follow your own morality then your life is a failure. God gave us a sense of right and wrong. Why in all of Creation would God give us a sense of morality that is revolted at the sight of murder and torture and rape, then command us to do all those things? The only logical conclusion is that your god is false.

The day will come friend when the United States of America is a Christian nation again! GLORY!

And when that day comes, I will fight against you to the last. I die free.

I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.

One final thing in closing though, you evidently believe that your god has the power to smite people as he did in the Old Testament. If I beseech him to smite me where I stand if you are right, will he?

[shol'va]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

I'm also pagan, so nice to meet you.
I abhor the bible and its vicious, cruel teaching, but I really don't believe in the bible god. That is to say, I believe everything in the bible is complete and utter hogwash.

As a pagan, how come you seem to believe in the xtian god, jesus and hell? Or am I mistaken in what you were trying to say?

I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull). Don't you believe in Jesus' message? It is a good one. Basically I keep my mind open to everything.

[Talitha]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull). Don't you believe in Jesus' message? It is a good one. Basically I keep my mind open to everything.

Well, I do believe that your visit to our Forum has started to be a fruitful one.
It gladdens mine and Jesus' heart when someone starts to see the guiding Light of Jesus.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull). Don't you believe in Jesus' message? It is a good one. Basically I keep my mind open to everything.

LOL!!! A GOOD message??? If you believe that, my friend, you're mistaken. Again I quote:

Matthew 10:34-35:
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

I do not believe in any message from the bible because I am pagan... the traditional kind of pagan that DOESN'T believe in the bible which came AFTER.
I do not believe the god, or jesus of the bible existed. I do not believe in the bible AT ALL.
The bible, jesus, xtianity...are all part of the same thing which is nothing to do with what I believe....thank the gods for that.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here.

Good friend, I pray you come to The TRUTH of Jesus love as we explain here in Landover. Do not tarry for Jesus return will be soon. If you do not come to Jesus in time your fate will be bobbing on the end of Satan’s barbed tallywacker for eternity.

One final thing in closing though, you evidently believe that your god has the power to smite people as he did in the Old Testament. If I beseech him to smite me where I stand if you are right, will he?

God moves as He chooses, not we friend. Be careful what you ask for too, just look at what God did in His Wrath to New Orleans with Katrina or South Asia with the Boxing Day Tsunami.

And again friend, you may not believe it but it is the same God in the Old and New Testament.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

The last time you prayed, did you hear "yes" or "no"? No, God works in subtler ways then that. And unfortunatley I can't cite my source, because I completely forgot where I heard it. But I did hear it, and that's a fact. And Global Orgasm Day is just creepy.

So no, you don't have a reference. You could have just said that you have no reference or evidence whatsoever . . . since you don't. But please, go look up all about the power of group prayer, and let us know what you find.

I heard that Jesus came back already and is currently working as a butcher at Gitmo. Does that make it true? Anecdotal evidence is no evidence.

I agree on Global Orgasm Day, but it seems that your response is inconsistent with your belief in the value of focusing energies as a group.

Hardly. I don't make up gods, I pray to already established ones, which aren't actually separate gods at all, but part of One God, so basically every time I pray to Ra, Sekhmet etc. I pray to the one God. Tell me, do you not imagine your god as he is in the Old Testament, smiting, killing, etc? The god suits the person, as I like to say. Your personalities are violent and psychotic, so you go with a god that suits those qualities.

Actually, we go with God as He has described Himself in His Word. Perhaps you should read it, instead of praying to the failed false gods of collapsed theocracies. (OOPS! Yes, those were theocracies, and you're now a booster for their failed false gods.)

I'm not condemning Christianity at all, only your brand. I'd bet about 0.01% of all Christians are so-called "True Christians" (aka radical extremists) and aroung 50% of the rest are conservative, but not with the wish to establish a theocracy.

Could you back that up with a scientific reference? 53% of Americans believe in Biblical 6-Day Creationism. How many of those do you think believe that "In God We Trust" needs to remain on the dollar bill? Look it up.

Our "brand", as you call it, is following exactly what the Bible says, instead of ignoring parts or making stuff up to suit our fancy. That's what True Christianity is. All others are lying to themselves and their congregations, and remaking God in their own image.

Perhaps you should read the Bible for yourself, instead of "learning about it" from others.

Don't give me that. You've advocated genocide plenty of times in your espousal of Yahweh's deeds in the Old Testament. And I never claimed I loved peace, I'm pro-war, remember. I will fight against you and your false god in the War to come.

I see. So if we do something you perceive as wrong, then it's OK for you to do something similar, which you also perceive as wrong? Interesting ethics you have there, Pagan.

We have repeatedly told you that we only state the Truth as God has written in His Word. We don't necessarily like all of it, but that doesn't give us the right to ignore the bits we don't care for. We may state that God commands us to commit genocide, but that doesn't mean we think it's a neat idea. You, on the other hand, advocate murdering anyone who doesn't think like you do. See the difference?

By the way, if God is false, and therefore does not exist (like your Egyptian sun-god Ra, who we all know has BILLIONS -- I mean, DOZENS -- of adherents) how exactly will you fight Him?

I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.

Loosely translated, "I thought I could easily convince you people to apostate your faith with a few clever arguments, but since I've failed, I shall leave with my tail between my legs. You see, I really don't have the strength of spiritual conviction I thought I had."

[WickedWitch]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.

Don't tell me this means that you're leaving! Yes, the Landoverites are rather exhausting, and yes, it does sometimes feel as though they are infecting you with their hate, but you know... They aren't bad people... They're a (slightly dysfunctional) family and you do eventually get used to it. I'm an Eclectic Pagan, and a Witch, and I've been here for... Goodness, how many years has it been? Well, three or four years, anyway, and I rather love these people and all their silly flaws. Please do stick around, please. It'd be a real shame to have someone so intelligent leave so soon.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

The last time you prayed, did you hear "yes" or "no"? No, God works in subtler ways then that. And unfortunatley I can't cite my source, because I completely forgot where I heard it. But I did hear it, and that's a fact. And Global Orgasm Day is just creepy.

That's a very absolutist position to take - it's fine for you to pick and choose your beliefs about spirituality, but as soon as anyone else tries it, it's automatically "creepy"? And a nice way of getting around the fact that you have nothing outside your own head to support your beliefs.

Hardly. I don't make up gods, I pray to already established ones, which aren't actually separate gods at all, but part of One God, so basically every time I pray to Ra, Sekhmet etc.

Friend, does it not bother you even slightly that the followers of the God of the Bible have proliferated and spread all over the world, whereas the followers of Ra, Sekhmet, Odin, Dagon and all the rest have withered, failed and died out? What does that say about the relative validity and usefulness of our God compared to yours?

I pray to the one God. Tell me, do you not imagine your god as he is in the Old Testament, smiting, killing, etc?

No. We do not have to imagine Him; He is real.

The god suits the person, as I like to say. Your personalities are violent and psychotic, so you go with a god that suits those qualities.

And your personality is intensely narcissistic and self-centered, so you make up a "god" that seems kind of neat and convenient to you. To anyone who actually takes the idea of a Supreme Being seriously, the idea of mere humans being able to shape the Almighty God in their image, rather than vice versa, is ludicrous and blasphemous beyond words.

I'm not condemning Christianity at all, only your brand. I'd bet about 0.01% of all Christians are so-called "True Christians" (aka radical extremists) and aroung 50% of the rest are conservative, but not with the wish to establish a theocracy.

Right. You're not condemning Christianity at all, only followers of Christ's teachings. As for your statistics:
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Don't give me that. You've advocated genocide plenty of times in your espousal of Yahweh's deeds in the Old Testament. And I never claimed I loved peace, I'm pro-war, remember. I will fight against you and your false god in the War to come.

So how exactly do you square your determination to use violence to suppress those who have different religious beliefs than you with this?

I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull).

So we're based on truth, but you're willing to fight to destroy us? You have some serious issues to work out. Either all "gods" are equally valid, or they aren't - you can't have it both ways.

I'm sorry if I appeared to say the I know the mind of God, I obviously don't.

That's alright, I don't think anyone here has ever accused you of appearing to know anything.

God says babie will go to hell? Where in the Bible does it ever say that?

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

We are told that we are tainted with sin from birth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

We can only become Saved through Jesus. Babies clearly cannot make a conscious decision to accept Jesus as their personal Saviour. Aside from Heaven and Hell, the Bible mentions no other options whatsoever.

If you do not follow your own morality then your life is a failure. God gave us a sense of right and wrong. Why in all of Creation would God give us a sense of morality that is revolted at the sight of murder and torture and rape, then command us to do all those things? The only logical conclusion is that your god is false.

Or that your arguments are. For those of us who aren't into DIY make-your-own-"god" kits, the idea that one's own subjective viewpoints should be the final authority on everything is highly dubious. God tested Job, so why shouldn't He be doing the same to us?

And when that day comes, I will fight against you to the last. I die free.

Nobody is free, you ignorant jackanapes. The idea of supernatural beings controlling the lives of humans is utterly incompatible with any kind of human freedom. That's equally true whether you call this supernatural being Jesus or Ra.

I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.

One final thing in closing though, you evidently believe that your god has the power to smite people as he did in the Old Testament. If I beseech him to smite me where I stand if you are right, will he?

No. Why would God listen to the prayers of a sinner?

[WickedWitch]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

Why would God listen to the prayers of a sinner?

Then why should sinners pray to God for forgiveness if He isn't going to listen? Why should sinners pray to God and Jesus to take control of their lives and invite Them into their hearts if They aren't going to listen?

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

Then why should sinners pray to God for forgiveness if He isn't going to listen? Why should sinners pray to God and Jesus to take control of their lives and invite Them into their hearts if They aren't going to listen?

Once they ask forgiveness and promise to follow Jesus, God starts to listen! Isn't it glorious?

For the unSaved, it's more like this: Imagine, if you will, that you take your nephew to the grocery store. A stranger's child walks up to you and demands that you buy her candy.

You don't know who that child is, so you shoo her away and tell her to find her own mother to buy candy for her.

That's much how I expect God responds to a follower of some failed false god, like Ra, when the Ra-follower says, "God, GIMME GIMME GIMME, I WANT I WANT I WANT." God says, "You're not My kid. You rejected Me. Go ask your failed false sun-god for something other than melanoma."

[Daniel]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

LOL!!! A GOOD message??? If you believe that, my friend, you're mistaken. Again I quote:

Matthew 10:34-35:
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

I do not believe in any message from the bible because I am pagan... the traditional kind of pagan that DOESN'T believe in the bible which came AFTER.
I do not believe the god, or jesus of the bible existed. I do not believe in the bible AT ALL.
The bible, jesus, xtianity...are all part of the same thing which is nothing to do with what I believe....thank the gods for that.

Being a wretched pagan woman, it is understandable that you find certain things hard to understand. However, you should know that there is much factual evidence to support the existence and relevance of the Bible, to prove the existence of Jesus of Nazareth (Our Lord and Savior), and to support the resurrection. Not that any True Christian would need evidence. As Passage Hebrews 11:1 says: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." If you are to understand Christ you must learn to live by faith and accept what you cannot see (yet) without a doubt. Praise Jesus that you are still here in God's favorite forums. Apparently God is giving you one last chance before he knocks you and your sorry pagan friends into hell. Such mercy! Praise Jesus! I'd take that offer before God runs out of patience with your little games.

Yours in Christ,

Brother Daniel

[WickedWitch]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

Being a wretched pagan woman, it is understandable that you find certain things hard to understand.

You listen here, boy, that "wretched Pagan woman" knows more about life in this world, and the one after, than you do and I think you owe her some respect and an apology. I get that you're a TC and she's a "heathen" and all the other nonsense that you all use to disrespect people, but that doesn't change the fact that she is your elder and your better and no one should ever speak rudely to a lady. Did your parents neglect to teach you manners, sonny? This first time I'm going to chalk your behaviour up to hormonal imbalance due to puberty (don't worry, kid, some people are just "late bloomers"), but once your voice changes and your testicles actually drop down and make an appearance, you won't have any excuses; you'll just have to act like a real man (meaning you'll have to display some honour and integrity as well as civility and respect). Don't make me beat you with my Mighty Stick of Justice, little boy; I won't enjoy it (who'm I kidding? I'd frigging love it! ), but I'll do it if you force my hand!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage

Don't make me beat you with my Mighty Stick of Justice, little boy; I won't enjoy it (who'm I kidding? I'd frigging love it! ), but I'll do it if you force my hand!

Alie,

This is a Christian discussion forum and not some place for you to pick up "bottoms" for what ever messed up Cannuk "Femdom scene" you are into. While I know they encourage such behavior up your way frankly Alie is is not proper for a young lady like you to strut about in thigh high latex boots and boss around men like you do. Jesus did not give your body just so you could amuse yourself by seeing how foolishly men behave when you flaunt it.