[laurel]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

I'm confused. Anna Karenina was goth now?

Ok how about these?


Yes these girls are disgusting.*sarcasam* You might as well tell all women from the Victorian era they all looked terrible. This is pretty much exactly what Victorian women look like.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

What's with the umbrellas? It's not even raining?

I've never seen so many goths on the ground. Usually they like to stay up in the trees.



This one is pretending to think really hard.





This one had to climb a tree in the middle of a mall parking lot before the clown-school dropout could eat him. Or his guitar, apparently.





What is this, like the goth version of Mickey Mouse ears?

[Basilissa]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

When somebody sees someone else wearing all black, they immediately think "Goth".

You are overgeneralizing, sweetheart. I grew up surrounded by heathen Catholics, so when I see a person wearing black, my first thought is that they are mourning a loved one.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Note For Parents

A few claims regarding goths have been made. It is worth noting how the documented connection between goth sub-cultures and cannibalism, in this case eating their friends, was ignored. What other elements of this disturbing trend are your goth-curious children ignoring when they tell you how it's all about a certain type of music/clothing/poetry?

[Ilariapaleone]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

How can she be "obviously" goth if goth is about the music and has nothing to do with what you wear? All we could see is the clothes. There is a scene where people wear T-shirts for ironic effect. How would we know she's not one of those?


That button leads to the quoted post and in this case to the following statement:



Pretty typical of the gothic thought processes we experience here.

Ah. Thank you. While the majority of that person's post is correct, there are two things that are wrong.

If a genre or subgenre moves away from it's roots, and stops sounding anything like itself, then it has clearly become something else. Darkwave cannot stop being Darkwave and yet continue to be Darkwave. It either has a Goth sound or it's not Darkwave. They also should have elaborated better on what they meant by moving away from it's Goth roots. Without knowing what they mean by "non Goth darkwave" it's hard to elaborate on this. If they mean bands like Blutengel, they are EBM not Darkwave.

As to Gothic Metal, the reason it is confused as being Goth is not just because of the name. It is because real Gothic Metal is a mixture of Goth Rock and Death/Doom Metal. It is mostly more Metal than Goth, but it has a high Goth influence. Anthemon for example were influenced by Goth Rock, and one of the members was also in the Goth Rock band Invading Chapel. Morten Veland from Sirenia, and formerly of Tristania, was the guitarist for the Goth Rock band Elusive. You can hear Goth influence in Tristania, EARLY Sirenia (before they went Symphonic Metal), and Anthemon. Amatris are also highly influenced by Goth Rock. They are probably the best Gothic Metal band IMO because they are the best mixture of Goth Rock and Death/Doom. Early Theatre of Tragedy, Paradise Lost, Type O Negative, Ravenland, etc., are also influenced by Goth Rock.

Pagans don't care what your religious documents say. Nor do Goths. They really have nothing to do with anything. Goth is a genre of music and subculture built around that music. It has nothing to do with religion.

There are no subliminal messages in anyone's posts. If someone says "not" it means not. I'm sorry if you have bad reading comprehension. I'm also sorry if you think a picture of someone who is skinny or toned, and is in a healthy weight limit is fat, and I'm sorry to say this but if that is what you think than you need to speak to a professional about your delusions...or discuss what constitutes a healthy weight with a doctor or a professional trainer.

" Goth is all about a “certain type of music” yet goths may be identified by “can wear
normal clothes too”"

Goths being able to wear normal clothing is not a point of identification. It just means Goth is not about fashion. It has a fashion, but it is not a fashion. You can listen to any type of music without dressing like the bands.

And yet again, ICP is not Goth, so it would be appreciated if you would stop using a fat kid wearing a "psychopathic rap" t-shirt as an example of a "Goth." Unless you have some link or screenshot to prove they have other music tastes...

"What's with the umbrellas? It's not even raining? "

I find it hard to believe that you do not know what a parasol is.

[Ilariapaleone]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Note For Parents

A few claims regarding goths have been made. It is worth noting how the documented connection between goth sub-cultures and cannibalism, in this case eating their friends, was ignored. What other elements of this disturbing trend are your goth-curious children ignoring when they tell you how it's all about a certain type of music/clothing/poetry?

And when will you make these "documents" available for anyone's view? Why do you provide no proof when asked?

As to earlier statements about Goths and suicide...

There are very few in actual statistics.

http://facesofsuicide.com/

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

And when will you make these "documents" available for anyone's view?

There are examples of goths eating their friends already posted. You can assume that when I refer to documentation it HAS been made available. There is a search function available.

Conflicting statements about whether goth is a style of music (which none of them seem ever to agree on) or a particular way of dressing (as a form of self expression) or both or neither have been posted throughout the thread, probably on every page, by self declared repositories of "real" emogoth culture. Unfortunately these often lengthy statements contradict one another on many major and minor points.

Some gothic "it's not about religion" types claim to be Christians. Which rather defeats your premise. You probably say they are not real goths but they say you're not and a third species says neither of you are. That's not an opinion. It's a summary of posts, not from me, thus far.

Reading threads is helpful to avoid looking precious.

[Ilariapaleone]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

There are examples of goths eating their friends already posted. You can assume that when I refer to documentation it HAS been made available. There is a search function available.

Conflicting statements about whether goth is a style of music (which none of them seem ever to agree on) or a particular way of dressing (as a form of self expression) or both or neither have been posted throughout the thread, probably on every page, by self declared repositories of "real" emogoth culture. Unfortunately these often lengthy statements contradict one another on many major and minor points.

Some gothic "it's not about religion" types claim to be Christians. Which rather defeats your premise. You probably say they are not real goths but they say you're not and a third species says neither of you are. That's not an opinion. It's a summary of posts, not from me, thus far.

Reading threads is helpful to avoid looking precious.

And if you would bother to look it up and actually do some research, or click on the links previously posted, you would know that Goth is in fact a genre of music, a Goth is a fan of Goth Rock not just "a person who dresses Goth", and which self proclaimed "Goths" who have replied to this thread actually no what they are talking about. I have made no conflicting statements, nor do I care what a bunch of ignorant peasants who don't bother to research the scene they claim to be a part of have to say about it. And yes, those who have bothered to do their research actually DO agree on it. You have been told by multiple people in this thread that Goth is a genre of music, and what that music is.

Emo has nothing to do with Punk, and nothing in common with it other than both real Emo and Goth have evolved from Punk. Please stop using the terms as if they are inseparable.

If an individual claims to be Christian, that is their prerogative. Music and religion are too separate things, and should not be discussed together, except when addressing someone who claims to be Christian and Goth. I do not. I have absolutely no problem with your believing that something does not follow the bible to the letter. And no it's not that those people are not necessarily real Goths if they claim to be Christian, it is that they probably are not true Christians or following the bible to the letter. And that is a religion argument, not a subculture/music argument.

My problem with you is the false statements made about Goth. Does not following the bible to the letter make something dangerous? Other than to your soul? No. Pagans do not care what YOU believe about the soul, so lay off it when your are replying to those who do not claim to follow your religion.

Are all Goths suicidal? No. Do Goths eat children? Not unless they are insane. Are all Goths insane? No. Are all Goths fat? No. Is ICP or Marilyn Manson Goth music? No. Do the members of either band listen to Goth Rock and are; therefore, individually Goth outside the band's time? I have no idea. I can't stand either band and do not care one whit about their personal interests. If any of them listen to Goth music does that make fans of their band's music Goths? No. Because listening to a non-Goth band that happens to have a member or two who likes Goth does not make you Goth.

Are Cannibal Corpse Goth? No. Therefore are ANY of these bands able to represent the Goth scene with their music or what they may do as promotional gimmicks? Of course not. Can what an individual who is not a Goth/not a fan of Goth Rock, like the kids at Columbine, represent the Goth scene with their actions? No, they cannot. Only an actual Goth can represent the Goth scene in any way, shape or form.

Are all Goths fat? No. As has been proven many times by pictures of Goths posted here. And is obvious if you look up any Goth club or festival or even band. Most Goth bands have skinny or toned members.

Do all Goths wear make-up? No. There is an entire thread on Vampirefreaks.com about not wearing make-up. Nor have I worn any in the past 13 years. Do all Goths who wear make-up wear black lipstick or whiteface? No, they do not. A lot of Goths in the US scene consider this unattractive. I see it more in pictures in the European scene, but even then it is not every single Goth.

Do all Goths dress slutty? Well, this depends on what you consider to be slutty. If you consider wearing a short sleeve or sleeveless shirt or dress to be slutty, then whatever. Though it seems pretty ridiculous to expect long sleeves in 100 degree weather. As you have seen, or would see if you would but look at the pictures, many Goths wear long skirts and long sleeves tops.

Are all Goths on drugs? Certainly not. I have already told you that drugs are unacceptable in every scene I have been involved in, which includes Baltimore, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. The majority of Goths I have spoken to online cannot stand people who do drugs.

Are all Goths violent? No.

Are all Goths animal abusers? No.

Are most? No.

Are most Goths depressed? No. The only Goth I know who has ever been depressed was because her husband died. A perfectly legitimate reason.

Are ONLY Goth people depressed, animal abusers, violent, etc.,? No. There are more cases of people who are NOT Goth involved in these things.

Are all Goths homosexual? No. More Goths are married or in same sex relationships than homosexual ones from what I have seen.

Were any of the reported school shootings or murders of any kind perpetrated by Goths? I have yet to see a single report that says or implies anything of the kind, without ignorantly contradicting that statement by rattling off a list of "bad influence bands" that aren't Goth. All the examples you have on this site of "Goths doing bad things" either make no implication whatsoever that the perpetrator was Goth, or as I said lists bands that aren't Goth or lists no bands the perpetrator listened to.

As a case against "fake Christians" or "non Christians" your examples might have some merit. As a case against Goths in particular, they have none, since the individuals were not Goth and; therefore, cannot represent the Goth community.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

MitzaLizalor doesn't make false statements. You would do well to read her words carefully before engaging in one of these goth temper tantrums. You'll get no sympathy for that foolishness here, dear.

[Ilariapaleone]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

MitzaLizalor doesn't make false statements. You would do well to read her words carefully before engaging in one of these goth temper tantrums. You'll get no sympathy for that foolishness here, dear.

Yes, she does. Constantly. As does this entire "church" of trolls. You would do well to learn the definition of phrases like "temper tantrum" before using them. None of you will get any sympathy from the Goth community for any type of ignorance.

And yes, continue giving infractions any time someone actually proves you wrong. Yes, wrong. Skinny is not fat, regardless of your warped perceptions, and posting any type of proof against your inaccurate and false statements is only "spam", and an intelligent response correcting your false accusations is only a "temper tantrum" because you do not want anyone to realize you are WRONG. (Emphasizing. Not yelling)

At least when posting pictures of "Goths", I actually used pictures of people who listen to, or at least judging by their band shirts, appear to listen to Goth Rock...and not pictures of fat people in "psychopathic rap" shirts that most Goths cannot stand.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Yes, she does. Constantly. As does this entire "church" of trolls. You would do well to learn the definition of phrases like "temper tantrum" before using them. None of you will get any sympathy from the Goth community for any type of ignorance.

Why would you think we might want sympathy from a community that promotes such sinful acts as ritualistically tattooing of babies and eating your own feces?

[Ilariapaleone]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Why would you think we might want sympathy from a community that promotes such sinful acts as ritualistically tattooing of babies and eating your own feces?

Why would you think I would want you to? I mentioned no such community.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Why would you think I would want you to? .

Because you've landed here and want us to sympathise with the plight of your being misunderstood.

[Alvin Moss]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

And if you would bother to look it up and actually do some research, or click on the links previously posted, you would know that Goth is in fact a genre of music, a Goth is a fan of Goth Rock not just "a person who dresses Goth", and which self proclaimed "Goths" who have replied to this thread actually no what they are talking about. I have made no conflicting statements, nor do I care what a bunch of ignorant peasants who don't bother to research the scene they claim to be a part of have to say about it. And yes, those who have bothered to do their research actually DO agree on it. You have been told by multiple people in this thread that Goth is a genre of music, and what that music is.

Emo has nothing to do with Punk, and nothing in common with it other than both real Emo and Goth have evolved from Punk. Please stop using the terms as if they are inseparable.

If an individual claims to be Christian, that is their prerogative. Music and religion are too separate things, and should not be discussed together, except when addressing someone who claims to be Christian and Goth. I do not. I have absolutely no problem with your believing that something does not follow the bible to the letter. And no it's not that those people are not necessarily real Goths if they claim to be Christian, it is that they probably are not true Christians or following the bible to the letter. And that is a religion argument, not a subculture/music argument.

My problem with you is the false statements made about Goth. Does not following the bible to the letter make something dangerous? Other than to your soul? No. Pagans do not care what YOU believe about the soul, so lay off it when your are replying to those who do not claim to follow your religion.

Are all Goths suicidal? No. Do Goths eat children? Not unless they are insane. Are all Goths insane? No. Are all Goths fat? No. Is ICP or Marilyn Manson Goth music? No. Do the members of either band listen to Goth Rock and are; therefore, individually Goth outside the band's time? I have no idea. I can't stand either band and do not care one whit about their personal interests. If any of them listen to Goth music does that make fans of their band's music Goths? No. Because listening to a non-Goth band that happens to have a member or two who likes Goth does not make you Goth.

Are Cannibal Corpse Goth? No. Therefore are ANY of these bands able to represent the Goth scene with their music or what they may do as promotional gimmicks? Of course not. Can what an individual who is not a Goth/not a fan of Goth Rock, like the kids at Columbine, represent the Goth scene with their actions? No, they cannot. Only an actual Goth can represent the Goth scene in any way, shape or form.

Are all Goths fat? No. As has been proven many times by pictures of Goths posted here. And is obvious if you look up any Goth club or festival or even band. Most Goth bands have skinny or toned members.

Do all Goths wear make-up? No. There is an entire thread on VampireGeeks.com about not wearing make-up. Nor have I worn any in the past 13 years. Do all Goths who wear make-up wear black lipstick or whiteface? No, they do not. A lot of Goths in the US scene consider this unattractive. I see it more in pictures in the European scene, but even then it is not every single Goth.

Do all Goths dress slutty? Well, this depends on what you consider to be slutty. If you consider wearing a short sleeve or sleeveless shirt or dress to be slutty, then whatever. Though it seems pretty ridiculous to expect long sleeves in 100 degree weather. As you have seen, or would see if you would but look at the pictures, many Goths wear long skirts and long sleeves tops.

Are all Goths on drugs? Certainly not. I have already told you that drugs are unacceptable in every scene I have been involved in, which includes Baltimore, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. The majority of Goths I have spoken to online cannot stand people who do drugs.

Are all Goths violent? No.

Are all Goths animal abusers? No.

Are most? No.

Are most Goths depressed? No. The only Goth I know who has ever been depressed was because her husband died. A perfectly legitimate reason.

Are ONLY Goth people depressed, animal abusers, violent, etc.,? No. There are more cases of people who are NOT Goth involved in these things.

Are all Goths homosexual? No. More Goths are married or in same sex relationships than homosexual ones from what I have seen.

Were any of the reported school shootings or murders of any kind perpetrated by Goths? I have yet to see a single report that says or implies anything of the kind, without ignorantly contradicting that statement by rattling off a list of "bad influence bands" that aren't Goth. All the examples you have on this site of "Goths doing bad things" either make no implication whatsoever that the perpetrator was Goth, or as I said lists bands that aren't Goth or lists no bands the perpetrator listened to.

As a case against "fake Christians" or "non Christians" your examples might have some merit. As a case against Goths in particular, they have none, since the individuals were not Goth and; therefore, cannot represent the Goth community.

You have come to the wrong place to promote your death worshipping and God hating false religion. Your excuses and your vile blandishments are drivel.

Why do you waste your efforts here among Christians? Do you expect to convert us? Could it be that your protestations are really attempts to convince yourself of the righteousness of your cause? Has that worked out for you? No one here is fooled.

My advice is to seek Jesus and quick. It's that or Hell and you won't like it there.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

I mentioned no such community.

shirts that most Goths cannot stand

So there's an "in" group and an "out" group. Sounds like a community to me.