[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

I added some other translations of the verse in 1 John 5:18.
The KJV is not very good with this verse. The other translations give a better understanding. It is not that we are perfect or sinless, but that we strive not to practice sin any more. That is how God counts us righteous or perfect. But we are not righteous or perfect like Jesus was, as a man.

Only your modern perversions that use dynamic equivalence and don't stay faithful to the source material.

Have a look at serious Bibles.

New American Standard.

1 John 3 4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and (L)sin is lawlessness.
5You know that He (M)appeared in order to (N)take away sins; and (O)in Him there is no sin.
6No one who abides in Him (P)sins; no one who sins has seen Him or (Q)knows Him.
7Little children, make sure no one (S)deceives you; (T)the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8the one who practices sin is (U)of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning (V)The Son of God (W)appeared for this purpose, (X)to destroy the works of the devil.
9No one who is (Y)born of God (Z)practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

English Standard

4Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness;(M) sin is lawlessness. 5You know that(N) he appeared to(O) take away sins, and(P) in him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in him keeps on sinning;(Q) no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7Little children, let no one deceive you.(S) Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8(T) Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was(U) to destroy the works of the devil. 9(V) No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s[b] seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Young's Literal Translation

4Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness,
5and ye have known that he was manifested that our sins he may take away, and sin is not in him;
6every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him, nor known him.
7Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous,
8he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;
9every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

[epignosis]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Friend, you shouldn't take Scripture out of context. If you had read further, you would have come across this Verse:

That is true, you have to use all scriptures, to come to the correct understanding. No contradictions.

Psalm 51:5 (King James Version)

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 3:23 (King James Version)

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ephesians 2:3-7 (King James Version)

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

We are all born into sin. We can not escape that. We all fall short of the glory of God. In Ephesians 2:3 we also are "children of wrath, even as others".
In verse 5 "Even when we were dead in sins", Jesus counted us worthy to go with him. These ones are the one that follow Jesus.

[COLOR="Blue"]All the scriptures have to be in harmony. So in Romans 3:23 says all have fallen short of Gods glory, that is about all of us.
That is why the scripture in Ephesians 2:5 the brackets say (by grace ye are saved ) the reason we need grace is because even though we sin, he still took us with him. No grace would be needed if we were perfect.

All the scriptures in the bible talking about man, and his righteousness or perfection, have to be in harmony with each other.
So if you say, men who follow Christ are perfect and don't sin, then that understanding contradicts many of the scriptures on the topic.
There were many men in the bible that were good men and God was with them. But none of them could do what Jesus did. Because they were not perfect. God chose Jesus to come to the earth because he was going to be a perfect man ( physically) and he was sinless. All of us were born into sin, and imperfection.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

That is true, you have to use all scriptures, to come to the correct understanding. No contradictions.

Psalm 51:5 (King James Version)

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

I'm not sure who the Psalmist is there and I'm not going to look it up, but Psalm 119 tells us.

1Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
2Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
3They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
4Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
5O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
6Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

Then there is Ezekiel

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Romans 3:23 (King James Version)

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

That is prior to salvation. God sent Jesus as a sacrifice. Look at verse 25

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Ephesians 2:3-7 (King James Version)

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Notice the part I highlighted for you.

But none of them could do what Jesus did. Because they were not perfect. God chose Jesus to come to the earth because he was going to be a perfect man ( physically) and he was sinless. All of us were born into sin, and imperfection.

So the Psalmist is just boasting here?

Psalm 101:2 I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Then there is Luke 1.

Luke 1:5-6 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

[True Disciple]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

That is true, you have to use all scriptures, to come to the correct understanding. No contradictions.

Psalm 51:5 (King James Version)

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 3:23 (King James Version)

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ephesians 2:3-7 (King James Version)

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

We are all born into sin. We can not escape that. We all fall short of the glory of God. In Ephesians 2:3 we also are "children of wrath, even as others".
In verse 5 "Even when we were dead in sins", Jesus counted us worthy to go with him. These ones are the one that follow Jesus.

All the scriptures have to be in harmony. So in Romans 3:23 says all have fallen short of Gods glory, that is about all of us.
That is why the scripture in Ephesians 2:5 the brackets say (by grace ye are saved ) the reason we need grace is because even though we sin, he still took us with him. No grace would be needed if we were perfect.

Friend, now you are just repeating yourself. None of these Verses speak about people who are already Saved(tm).

Psalm 51:5 teaches that people are born evil. I do not dispute that.
Romans 3:23 confirms the natural evil character of all human beings.
Ephesians 2:3-7 teaches that believers that they also were sinful in their natural state.

However, the point here is that this natural state of sin is supplanted by a sin-free state which is made possible by Jesus' death on the cross. We are not natural men anymore:

1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

No grace would be needed if we were born perfect. But we aren't. Grace is the very thing that makes us perfect!

All the scriptures in the bible talking about man, and his righteousness or perfection, have to be in harmony with each other.
So if you say, men who follow Christ are perfect and don't sin, then that understanding contradicts many of the scriptures on the topic.

As I've shown, it doesn't contradict a single Passage of the Bible, and you contradict both 1 John 3:9 and 5:18 when you claim that True Christians(tm) aren't sin-free.

There were many men in the bible that were good men and God was with them. But none of them could do what Jesus did. Because they were not perfect. God chose Jesus to come to the earth because he was going to be a perfect man ( physically) and he was sinless. All of us were born into sin, and imperfection.

Born in sin, that is true.
Have you ever considered what might be the meaning of the phrase "born again?"

[epignosis]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Friend, now you are just repeating yourself. None of these Verses speak about people who are already Saved™.

Hebrews 10:26-29 (King James Version)

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Matthew 24:12-15 (King James Version)

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

There is no sure thing for salvation. You have to remain faithful. Not all do. Judas is an example of that. Adam and Eve were perfect, they both fell. Satan was angel and given the position of ruling the earth, and he fell.

[True Disciple]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Hebrews 10:26-29 (King James Version)

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Matthew 24:12-15 (King James Version)

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

There is no sure thing for salvation. You have to remain faithful. Not all do. Judas is an example of that. Adam and Eve were perfect, they both fell. Satan was angel and given the position of ruling the earth, and he fell.

Friend, you are structurally quoting Scripture that doesn't support your viewpoints.

Hebrews 10:26-29 teaches that if anyone rejects Jesus after receiving knowledge of the Truth(tm), there is no remission of sins anymore for that person. It clearly teaches that people who sin aren't Saved(tm), which was more or less my point.

And yes, we should endure to the end, because otherwise, we won't get Saved(tm). If we do not remain faithful, we lose our Salvation(tm), and only Saved(tm) people are sin-free.

Judas never was Saved(tm). Adam and Eve lived before Jesus died for our sins. And what you say about Satan isn't supported anywhere in the Bible.

What exactly is your point?

[epignosis]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Friend, you are structurally quoting Scripture that doesn't support your viewpoints.

Hebrews 10:26-29 teaches that if anyone rejects Jesus after receiving knowledge of the Truth™, there is no remission of sins anymore for that person. It clearly teaches that people who sin aren't Saved™, which was more or less my point.

And yes, we should endure to the end, because otherwise, we won't get Saved™. If we do not remain faithful, we lose our Salvation™, and only Saved™ people are sin-free.

Judas never was Saved™. Adam and Eve lived before Jesus died for our sins. And what you say about Satan isn't supported anywhere in the Bible.

What exactly is your point?

The point is that the bible makes it clear that it is only the ones that endure to the end that will be saved. So a person’s final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus.

Matthew 24:13 (King James Version)

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Psalm 37:29 (King James Version)

29The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Proverbs 2:21 (King James Version)

21For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

Adam and Eve were perfect and were intended to live forever on the earth.
So 'perfect' people, can still go against God. So salvation is a matter of endurance to the end. And the hope of mankind is of the earth.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Proverbs 2:21 (King James Version)

21For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

Adam and Eve were perfect and were intended to live forever on the earth.
So 'perfect' people, can still go against God. So salvation is a matter of endurance to the end. And the hope of mankind is of the earth.

Where does it say that Adam and Eve were perfect?

True, God "created man in his own image" (Genesis 1:27), but that's like saying a Polaroid picture/image of you is EXACTLY/PERFECTLY like you...it's simply not true.

It looks like you included Proverbs 2:21 as some tenuous support of your position, but that is not talking about Adam and Eve, as Proverbs 2:22 makes plain.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[True Disciple]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

The point is that the bible makes it clear that it is only the ones that endure to the end that will be saved. So a person’s final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus.

Matthew 24:13 (King James Version)

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Psalm 37:29 (King James Version)

29The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Proverbs 2:21 (King James Version)

21For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

Adam and Eve were perfect and were intended to live forever on the earth.
So 'perfect' people, can still go against God. So salvation is a matter of endurance to the end. And the hope of mankind is of the earth.

There are quite a few Passages you are overlooking:

Ephesians 4:30:
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:22:
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of God "unto the day of redemption." It protects us from falling away again.

John 10:28-29:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No man is able to "pluck us from Jesus' hand" once Jesus gave us eternal life.

Romans 8:38-39:
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is nothing on this world that can separate us from Jesus' Love, once we have accepted Him as our Lord and Savior.

Romans 11:29:
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

If God called you to be Saved™, you are Saved™, because God doesn't repent about that.

Philippians 1:6:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

God will finish the Work He has begun in us until the last of days. He will prevent us from falling away.

1 Peter 1:5:
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Again, it is God who makes sure that we keep believing in Him and are Saved™. To say that Saved™ people can fall away again is to deny God's Power to keep us from doing so.

So you see, once a person is Saved™, God will make sure that that person remains Saved™. Are you doubting His Almighty Power?

[epignosis]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Where does it say that Adam and Eve were perfect?

True, God "created man in his own image" (Genesis 1:27), but that's like saying a Polaroid picture/image of you is EXACTLY/PERFECTLY like you...it's simply not true.

It looks like you included Proverbs 2:21 as some tenuous support of your position, but that is not talking about Adam and Eve, as Proverbs 2:22 makes plain.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

Deuteronomy 32:1-10 (King James Version)

Deuteronomy 32

1Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Because all his work is perfect, this tells us that man (Adam) was not corrupted when created,but was perfect, but corrupted himself, by his being disloyal to God.


Genesis 1:26 (King James Version)

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


This scripture is saying that God was talking to Jesus and said "let us make man in our image". This means that we are like God in that we were perfect( would not die) and have the same qualities of God.


Romans 5 (King James Version)

Romans 5
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The reason no man born of corruption ( from Adam) was used as a ransom, was that Adam was perfect, but all of Adams offspring were not perfect. Even though there were men that did follow God in a righteous way.
The one to come is Jesus, and he was to ransom mankind with the "similitude of Adam's transgression" Jesus was perfect just like Adam, so this would be the same type of situation that Adam had. A perfect man that lost perfection, able to ransome the rest of mankind by a perfect man who stayed loyal. Thus this gave mankind the opportunity to gain what was lost .

[epignosis]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

There are quite a few Passages you are overlooking:

Ephesians 4:30:
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:22:
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of God "unto the day of redemption." It protects us from falling away again.

John 10:28-29:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No man is able to "pluck us from Jesus' hand" once Jesus gave us eternal life.

Romans 8:38-39:
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is nothing on this world that can separate us from Jesus' Love, once we have accepted Him as our Lord and Savior.

Romans 11:29:
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

If God called you to be Saved™, you are Saved™, because God doesn't repent about that.

Philippians 1:6:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

God will finish the Work He has begun in us until the last of days. He will prevent us from falling away.

1 Peter 1:5:
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Again, it is God who makes sure that we keep believing in Him and are Saved™. To say that Saved™ people can fall away again is to deny God's Power to keep us from doing so.

So you see, once a person is Saved™, God will make sure that that person remains Saved™. Are you doubting His Almighty Power?

Yes you are correct here. There are "sealed" ones.

Revelation 7:3-17 (King James Version)

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

So these verses are talking about a sealed number. ( verse 4)
But in verse 9 there is another group which is larger and that does not have a specific number attached to it. But is much larger than the sealed group.
So there is 2 distinct groups here.

[True Disciple]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Because all his work is perfect, this tells us that man (Adam) was not corrupted when created,but was perfect, but corrupted himself, by his being disloyal to God.

Friend, God also creates evil:

Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

According to your logic, this would imply that evil is therefore "perfect" as well.

Yes you are correct here. There are "sealed" ones.

Revelation 7:3-17 (King James Version)

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

So these verses are talking about a sealed number. ( verse 4)
But in verse 9 there is another group which is larger and that does not have a specific number attached to it. But is much larger than the sealed group.
So there is 2 distinct groups here.

Friend, how do you know the "seal of the Holy Spirit" Paul speaks of is the same as the "seal on the foreheads" of the 144.000?

Anyway, does this mean that you accept that Salvation™ is something we will not lose anymore, once we've attained it?

[epignosis]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Friend, God also creates evil:

Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

According to your logic, this would imply that evil is therefore "perfect" as well.

Friend, how do you know the "seal of the Holy Spirit" Paul speaks of is the same as the "seal on the foreheads" of the 144.000?

Anyway, does this mean that you accept that Salvation™ is something we will not lose anymore, once we've attained it?

Hi True Disciple
James 1:13-14 (King James Version)

13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Rightly, God brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, God is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.)
His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind.
So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing.
Examples of evils or calamities created by God are the Flood of Noah’s day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times God, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the repentance on the part of those concerned. (John 3:10)
Additionally, in having a warning given, God has undeservedly provided opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and thus to keep living.—Eze 33:11.

Friend, how do you know the "seal of the Holy Spirit" Paul speaks of is the same as the "seal on the foreheads" of the 144.000?

Revelation 7:2-4 (King James Version)

2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

The seal itself is figurative, but the number is a sealed number. Compared to the second group, that no man can number,... is not sealed.

Anyway, does this mean that you accept that Salvation™ is something we will not lose anymore, once we've attained it?

It is the one that endures to end that will be saved. That means either when we die ( we get old and die), or when when God's government takes over ( God takes away Satan as ruler of the earth) at Armageddon. Both groups have a reward if they remain faithful. The sealed go to heaven to rule with Jesus, the crowd that can not be numbered remain on the earth.
Once in heaven ruling with Jesus those ones are immortal, they will not lose salvation ever. The ones on the earth can live forever, but they are not immortal.
So once the sealed ones attain immortality they will never lose it.

[epignosis]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Hi True Disciple

Friend, how do you know the "seal of the Holy Spirit" Paul speaks of is the same as the "seal on the foreheads" of the 144.000?

I wasn't sure what scripture you mean. But I did find this one. ( please quote the scripture so I know which one you are considering,... thanks)


1 Corinthians 9:1-2 (King James Version)

1 Corinthians 9

1Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

2If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.


Ephesians 1:13-14 (King James Version)

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


ear·nest1    
[ur-nist] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
serious in intention, purpose, or effort; sincerely zealous: an earnest worker.

This verse also says "until the redemption".
So Paul was waiting.All he had at this point in time was his earnestness. He still had to endure to the end. ( end of his life)

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-

Deuteronomy 32:1-10 (King James Version)

Deuteronomy 32

1Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Because all his work is perfect, this tells us that man (Adam) was not corrupted when created,but was perfect, but corrupted himself, by his being disloyal to God.


Genesis 1:26 (King James Version)

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


This scripture is saying that God was talking to Jesus and said "let us make man in our image". This means that we are like God in that we were perfect( would not die) and have the same qualities of God.


Romans 5 (King James Version)

Romans 5
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The reason no man born of corruption ( from Adam) was used as a ransom, was that Adam was perfect, but all of Adams offspring were not perfect. Even though there were men that did follow God in a righteous way.
The one to come is Jesus, and he was to ransom mankind with the "similitude of Adam's transgression" Jesus was perfect just like Adam, so this would be the same type of situation that Adam had. A perfect man that lost perfection, able to ransome the rest of mankind by a perfect man who stayed loyal. Thus this gave mankind the opportunity to gain what was lost .

It looks like you've posted Scripture to make my point!



Also: just because something is MADE perfectly does not mean it REMAINS perfect.

For instance, my wife made a delicious pie earlier today (apple, in case you're curious).

It was perfect!

What do you think it looks like now?

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth