[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 3:16

Wow. Rev. Jim Osborne, I MUST say that it is a pleasure to meet you (albeit online on a message board). You are the very first honest-to-goodness, unashamed, world-class Health and Wealth preacher that I have ever had the privilege of meeting. I’ve always wanted the opportunity, but have never had one until now. I have SO MANY questions, but will do my best to constrain myself to the issue at hand: Salvation.

Even if the the medium of the internet makes it rather hard to pick up sarcasm and jokes sometimes, I can tell you are being sarcastic with your words. You are nothing but a liar, and a True Christian™ does not lie. You realize one of the Ten Commandments is against bearing false witness, right? Also consider the company you are in...

1st Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1st Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

I must confess that I am one of your more “dim readers.” I hope you’ll show longsuffering and patience toward me as I do have some questions. After all, it is written in 2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

Indeed, I will. Do not think that I want you -- or anyone -- to go to Hell. I would like to see as many people go to Heaven. That is why I am taking the time out of my busy schedule to wake you up and see the Truth.

I agree with you 100% on EVERYTHING outside of the parenthesis. Verse 14 says, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Much later on the same subject, but in a different context, Jesus even says, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matt 22:14). Praise Him that He even chose those few! Amen?

AMEN!

But RJO (can I call you that?), I do believe that you have missed what the KJV teaches about salvation in Jesus Christ. It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, not works - Ephesians 2:8-9. Those verses absolutely preclude us from boasting that since we believe 50 things on a list then we are therefore saved (as many on this thread have done and are encouraged to do by even yourself via the poll). How about Acts 16:30-31 which says, “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”? I see no mention of understanding or believing a list of 50 statements regardless of whether those statements are true or not. All the man (and his household) needs to do is "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". Would you really add your list to the Biblical requirements of salvation? Romans 2:25 which speaks of Jesus says, “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”. No list here either. This list of yours, while containing some statements that are true, has nothing to do in and of itself with the reality of one’s salvation or lack thereof at least according to the KJV.

You are misunderstanding what "faith" is. You can't have faith in Christ and have bad works follow. Works follow faith. You are implying that all we need to do is "believe in Jesus" and basically do whatever the heck we want and we are Saved? Wrong.

First off, the Bible tells us that works are required for salvation. It contradicts your claim of "It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, not works"

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The Bible makes it clear in the end we will be judged by our works. And personally, I find it somewhat amusing that you mentioned James 2:10 earlier because if you read a couple lines down, you will find one of the most vivid and clear commandments that works are necessary for salvation.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[. . .]
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[. . .]
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[. . .]
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[. . .]
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith without works is dead being alone. If truly believe, works will follow. Now, this leads us to my second point. Like I said, if you truly believed in Christ, you naturally would live a good life and follow all of the Bible. We know that True Christians™ cannot sin because we walk in the light.

1st John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1st John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1st John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1st John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Those verses right there tell us simply that those who abide in Christ do not sin. Those that do not abide him, do sin. Do you see where this is going? When you used the Acts and Romans quotes up above where Christ tells that you need faith, He is talking about having such a strong faith in Him that you do not sin. Works are the result of faith. Faith and works are so intertwined.

Let me make a little analogy for you: Three people are in an airplane. The plan suddenly hits turbulence, spins out of control, and starts a nose dive. The pilot asks the two people next to him: "Do you have faith that I can recover this plane?" Both people say "yes".

Twenty seconds later, and only 10,000 feet above the ground, one of the passengers suddenly puts on a parachute and jumps from the plane. The other passenger remains inside, next to the pilot. With 3,000 feet to go, the pilot recovers and the plane is safe.

Now, who here has the real faith? Both people expressed faith in the pilot. They both said they had faith. But, you can tell which one truly had faith -- by his actions. By staying behind.

It is a different gospel which, incidentally, Paul warns believers about in Galatians 1:6-8 ”

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

It is not a different gospel. I quoted you from the AV1611 King James Bible, not some heretical NIV text.

What if something on your list is wrong? Think about that for a minute, just what if? Would that not possibly cause some of God’s people to be spiritually offended (or to stumble as they are following the teaching of one who claims to speak God’s truth)? Did Jesus say anything about that? Matthew 18:4-7 comes to mind: “Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!”.

Well nothing on the list is wrong at all. I provided references for every single question. If you feel one is wrong, simply look up the reference and see what the Bible says for yourself.

I’m not going to wade through all 50, but number 8 is absolutely untrue according to the KJV. As Jesus said in Luke 12:24. “ye err, not knowing the Scriptures,” Leviticus 21:16-23 makes absolutely no mention of the church as it is in the context of the Jewish Temple which served an entirely different function than the church does. – see the middle of this post for more detail on this passage: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showpost.php?p=520912&postcount=7 So, what happens now? This means that there is something on your list that the Bible says is untrue, yet you, “God’s own Mouthpiece” have told me that it is true. Who should I believe? God or you? I know who I’ll choose. This is not the only error according to the KJV on your list that as you said is “100% accurate,” but like I said, I’ll not take the time here to go through them all.

Now you're playing word games. Since it was technically a "temple" therefore it doesn't apply to a "church"? Let's look at the verses in question...

Lev 21:16-23 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the LORD, who makes them holy. ' "

It makes it clear right there that handicapped people should not be allowed into the Lord's house, i.e., a church. Unless of course you seem to think that churches are unholy to begin with?

I should also point out that the verses imply a hatred of handicapped people. They are not worthy to worship them. In fact, handicapped people are punished by God.

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

God makes people handicapped. And He doesn't want them in his churches. Sorry if this information spoils your false view that Christianity is some happy hippie lovefest where everyone is welcome. It's about time to throw off the brainwashing that liberal preachers have fed your mind with and open yourself up to the Truth.

Finally sir, a word of encouragement. You more than most must be very careful. If you teach the Word of God as the pastor of His people, then you will be judged by God more strictly than those who are not pastors and teachers. can you imagine how that will be amplified in your case because of your vast reach and influence? James 3:1 – “My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.” 1 Timothy 2:15, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

I do not fear being judged. I am without sin.

I pray that you will repent of this false doctrine. It truly is a pleasure to meet you.

I pray that you will repent of this false doctrine. It truly is a pleasure to meet you.