"Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

[KeruxR]

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I don’t usually do introductions, but for some reason, I feel like making an exception, mostly because – I think – of the “non-conformity” I observe here. Being a non-conformist myself, I decided to register and post an intro.

I’m asked to tell you what church I go to. That surprised me, coming from what I thought, at first glance, was an enlightened bunch of (at least nominal) Christians. I don’t go to church; I am part of the body of Christ. Going into a building no more makes one a Christian than entering a garage makes a lawnmower a car. Besides, in my geographical area, no “church” exists that isn’t somehow corrupted by Judeo-Christian (an oxymormon) or Zionist Christian (another oxymormon) ideology. So, why bother? I’m just labeled a troublemaker and a divider.

However, with the technology that we have access to, I stay in touch with likeminded brethren on a regular basis through Skype and Teamviewer. Not perfect, but, under present circumstances, it’s the best I can do.

Like a good nooby, I read the required threads posted by those I assume are the forum’s leaders. I was struck by the willingness to “discuss religious topics” of controversy – in a friendly and intelligent manner.

I personally enjoy discussing religious topics with this sort of person.

Or maybe not. We’ll see.

Nice to see that those here are not snookered by the jew propaganda that Jesus Christ was/is a joo. I’m embarrassed to think I used to think he was. But then again, I used to think many things I no longer think. I assume nothing nor take anything for granted. Whenever I slip up and forget that paradigm, I’m always invariably sorry and usually have consequences to pay. Nothing, I’ve found out, is as it seems.

That said, I take issue with this:

We also believe that the King James Bible is the only accurate English translation of God's Word.

The KJV is filled with errors, omissions and outright deceptions. Some scholars have counted at least 2,700 of such EODs. As time goes on, I'll provide the facts to support that contention, unless I get banned before given the opportunity that is, as I read I have no rights here. Which is fine. I don’t have to post here. There are dozens of forums that I can spend time on, so if you wish to ban me, go right ahead. I’ll wipe the dust off my sandals and move on.

If not, I take issue with this statement also:

It is the only English language Bible based on the Textus Receptus.

That’s only half true – the KJV is also based upon the Masoretic text. This is important, as the Masoretic texts were composed by jewish scribes, and from what I can detect with what little time I have spent here, that fact should cause at least some of you some discomfort.

There’s more, but this is only an intro, so I’ll pause here.

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[Johny Joe Hold]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

Welcome to our Forum. I'm sure that you will change your mind about a few matters as you engage with our members.

I would hope you would not write off all churches based on the experiences you have had. Landover Baptist Church is a place where Jesus lives and the members live the most holy of lives.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

Hello Kerux, welcome to God's Favorite Forum™.

The KJV is filled with errors, omissions and outright deceptions. Some scholars have counted at least 2,700 of such EODs. As time goes on, I'll provide the facts to support that contention, unless I get banned before given the opportunity that is, as I read I have no rights here. Which is fine. I don’t have to post here. There are dozens of forums that I can spend time on, so if you wish to ban me, go right ahead. I’ll wipe the dust off my sandals and move on.

First of all, nobody here gets banned for having a differing opinion. For being hateful and vulgar, sure (that happens daily), but if you browse through the forums you will see that there are a great number of members who aren't even Christian.

That being said, I'd be interested in hearing what evidence you have that the KJV is filled with errors (I can't really respond to evidence you don't present). However, I need to ask what this scripture means to you:

"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35

That’s only half true – the KJV is also based upon the Masoretic text. This is important, as the Masoretic texts were composed by jewish scribes, and from what I can detect with what little time I have spent here, that fact should cause at least some of you some discomfort.

That is true, but I was under the impression that the Textus Receptus was a translation of the New Testament. Therefore, the KJV can be wholly based on the Textus Receptus and still be based on the Masoretic texts.

I'm also curious as to what your issue with the Masoretic texts is. Sure it was primarily copied, edited and distributed by Jews, but as the old saying goes "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day".

[KeruxR]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

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Thanks for the welcome JJ.

I would hope you would not write off all churches based on the experiences you have had.

I haven't and I won't.

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Thanks Lycia, for the welcome

For being hateful and vulgar

Wouldn't think of it, although there is much bad talk about hate, even Yahweh hates:

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

Quoted by Paul in Romans 9:13 for those who ignore the OT.

Hate does have it's place.

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I'd be interested in hearing what evidence you have that the KJV is filled with errors

I'd be interested in presenting that evidence, as time allows.

As for

"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35

The Scriptures were not written by the prophets and the disciples in English, much less the King James (who was a Catholic) Version.

They were written in Hebrew and Greek and then passed through many hands of those with an agenda before they landed on those thin gilded pages we read in English.

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Sure it was primarily copied, edited and distributed by Jews

I see we agree on one thing already.

Thank you both and I look forward to our "cyber" fellowship and discourse opportunities.

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[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

Thanks Lycia, for the welcome

You're very welcome. Also, just so you know, you can use the QUOTE function to make it easier to see who you are responding to. Just type QUOTE and put [] around it at the start and /QUOTE at the end of whatever you're quoting.

Hate does have it's place.

Of course. I should have clarified that I meant the bigoted comments full of profanity made by users who have no interest in learning about the Bible and are full of intolerance for any viewpoint that contradicts with their own, not the righteous hatred of sinful behavior.

The Scriptures were not written by the prophets and the disciples in English, much less the King James (who was a Catholic) Version.

They were written in Hebrew and Greek and then passed through many hands of those with an agenda before they landed on those thin gilded pages we read in English.

The fact that the Bible was not originally written in English is a valid concern, but you are neglecting to take into account that the KJV Bible is an inspired document in of itself. There is Biblical basis for a translation being inspired, just look at these examples:

"And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter." Genesis 42:23

Joseph is speaking Egyptian during his reunion with his brethren. The same situation occurs in Exodus 4-14 when Moses speaks Egyptian to Pharoah. Finally, there is another example in the book of Acts, which was originally written in Greek.

"And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying," Acts 21:40

Now, if we look at this verse from 2 Timothy:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

We see that the scripture (which always refers to something that is written) is inspired, not necessarily the original, spoken statements (though in those cases they were).

And King James wasn't a catlick, he was a Protestant. Ever hear of the gunpowder plot?

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

Hello and welcome to God's Favorite Forum(tm). First, let me help you get better acquainted with our message board. On the bottom of each post is a button. Click that to be able to properly quote people, like so...

Thanks Lycia, for the welcome

For being hateful and vulgar

Wouldn't think of it, although there is much bad talk about hate, even Yahweh hates:

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

Quoted by Paul in Romans 9:13 for those who ignore the OT.

Hate does have it's place.

I'm glad that you do recognize that God does hate. All too often we get unsaved trash wandering in here with some bizarre idea that God somehow "loves everyone". These people need to start reading the Bible and spend less time collecting Precious Moments figurines.

I'd be interested in hearing what evidence you have that the KJV is filled with errors

I'd be interested in presenting that evidence, as time allows.

As for

"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35

The Scriptures were not written by the prophets and the disciples in English, much less the King James (who was a Catholic) Version.

They were written in Hebrew and Greek and then passed through many hands of those with an agenda before they landed on those thin gilded pages we read in English.

No, it wasn't originally written in English, but those verses prove that the original words have been preserved perfectly intact into English. The Bible says that it's been preserved, and I believe the Bible. That's all you need to know on that matter.

Sure it was primarily copied, edited and distributed by Jews

I see we agree on one thing already.

Thank you both and I look forward to our "cyber" fellowship and discourse opportunities.

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It's also refreshing to meet someone that realizes Jesus was not a Jew and that those rats are unscrupulous and malicious.

[Levi Jones]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

That’s only half true – the KJV is also based upon the Masoretic text. This is important, as the Masoretic texts were composed by jewish scribes, and from what I can detect with what little time I have spent here, that fact should cause at least some of you some discomfort.

They are all based off of Jewish writings at some point. Even Jews wrote the Septuagint. Even Jerome used the Hebrew texts in the Vulgate instead of the Greek translation of them.

The Masoretic texts have stood the test of time extremely well. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls seem to confirm this.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

Welcome to God's favorite forum. I'd like to invite you to read my sermon on the subject "Seven Easy Ways To Tell The True Bible From the False Ones " HERE.

If you'd like to find out more about Landover Baptist Church, please read THIS thread created especially for new posters.

If you have a question, use the "search" function before posting it. Most likely it is being discussed somewhere on this Godly forum. Please don't waste God's precious bandwidth.

[KeruxR]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

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but you are neglecting to take into account that the KJV Bible is an inspired document in of itself

If it can be shown that there are errors in the KJV, one would have to admit that the KJV is then, by definition, not the inspired Word of Yahweh, agreed?
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Btw: I misspoke, the NT was originally written in Aramaic, the language Yahshua spoke, then copied into Greek to be used as the gospel spread through Europe and the Mediterranean as Aramaic was not generally understood by those outside of western Asia.


And yes, James I was not a Roman Catholic. I should have said the King James (which is a catholic) Version. That is, it promotes universalism. I contend the Scripture in no way teaches universalism and that can be shown quite handily to an objective mind.
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you can use the QUOTE function to make it easier to see who you are responding to

Yeah, I know, but like I said in my intro, I’m a non-conformist.
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[Levi Jones]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

but you are neglecting to take into account that the KJV Bible is an inspired document in of itself

If it can be shown that there are errors in the KJV, one would have to admit that the KJV is then, by definition, not the inspired Word of Yahweh, agreed?

Not agreed. What translation do you consider to be better and let's start from there.

Btw: I misspoke, the NT was originally written in Aramaic, the language Yahshua spoke, then copied into Greek to be used as the gospel spread through Europe and the Mediterranean as Aramaic was not generally understood by those outside of western Asia.

Incorrect. The original New Testament was written in Greek. There are only a very few Old Testament scriptures written in Aramaic. I can't remember the specific ones off the top of my head.

There is a movement to attempt to translate the Bible into Aramaic.

And yes, James I was not a Roman Catholic. I should have said the King James (which is a catholic) Version.

That is again wrong. The King James Bible was written for the Church of England for protestants by protestants.

The Catholics much later came out with the English Douay Rheims as a competitor.

That is, it promotes universalism. I contend the Scripture in no way teaches universalism and that can be shown quite handily to an objective mind.

I am highly skeptical, but I would be interested in you belief the KJV promotes universalism.

[KeruxR]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

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Well, thank you J. Osborne for the welcome and the suggestions as to the use of the quote function. Seems like many of you are concerned about it’s use. When only a sentence or two is involved, I prefer my method, thanks.
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No, it wasn't originally written in English, but those verses prove that the original words have been preserved perfectly intact into English. The Bible says that it's been preserved, and I believe the Bible. That's all you need to know on that matter. (Osborne)

Proof is something that occurs in the mind, not in the physical world, like words written on paper.

PROOF, practice. The conviction or persuasion of the mind of a judge or jury, by the exhibition of evidence, of the reality of a fact alleged: as, to prove, is to determine or persuade that a thing does or does not exist.

The evidence offered doesn’t “prove” anything, at least not to me. We all have the same evidence to work with. How we interpret that evidence is what determines whether or not some point is indeed the reality. That is why a jury can disagree and there are hung juries.

Using your reasoning, The Living Bible is inspired, at least the English translation.

The evidence provided thus far does not persuade me that the Bible says that it has been preserved perfectly intact into English.

I believe the Scriptures to be inspired in their original languages – in our case – Hebrew and Greek, but not in English.

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On a separate but related matter, I’m not here to “prove” anything or to convince anyone. What others believe or don’t believe is of no concern of mine. We are each responsible for ourselves, no one else. I have enough work to do just taking care of what I think I know and believe. I've been wrong so many times in the past, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. I might be wrong. And if I hold fast to what is not right, I error.

One of my favorite verses is:

20 Do not despise expounding of scripture, 21 but scrutinize all
things. Hold fast that which is right. (I Thes. 5)

I’m simply a herald or messenger.



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[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

If it can be shown that there are errors in the KJV, one would have to admit that the KJV is then, by definition, not the inspired Word of Yahweh, agreed?

And you have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever that there are any errors in the KJV Bible. You've made the claim that there are, so the burden of proof lies with you, friend.

Btw: I misspoke, the NT was originally written in Aramaic, the language Yahshua spoke, then copied into Greek to be used as the gospel spread through Europe and the Mediterranean as Aramaic was not generally understood by those outside of western Asia.

Do you have any evidence to support this? I was under the impression that the New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek. Anyways, this is a non-point, as I've already shown how a translation can be inspired with scripture.

And yes, James I was not a Roman Catholic. I should have said the King James (which is a catholic) Version. That is, it promotes universalism. I contend the Scripture in no way teaches universalism and that can be shown quite handily to an objective mind.

Again, you're making extraordinary claims without the extraordinary evidence to back it up. If the KJV Bible promotes universalism, how do you explain these verses?

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:14

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 4:16

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:13-15

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:15

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

Finally, I'd love to hear why you think the KJV Bible is in any way, shape or form a catholic Bible.

Yeah, I know, but like I said in my intro, I’m a non-conformist.

Fair enough, but it does make it more of a hassle to format my responses to you.

[KeruxR]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

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Not agreed. What translation do you consider to be better and let's start from there. (Levi Jones)

You don’t agree that if errors can be shown to exist in the KJV (or any other version for that matter) then it is by definition, not the inspired Word of God?

It doesn’t matter what translation I consider to be better. We not discussing better translations, which are a matter of opinion.

What we are discussing is inspiration, which is not a matter of opinion, at least not for a Christian.

It can safely be said “All scripture is given by inspiration of God…” The question is: what Scripture? The KJV or the original languages?
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Incorrect. The original New Testament was written in Greek (LJ)

You seem pretty sure of yourself.

I’m not so sure. Aramaic was spoken by Christ and the disciples, not Greek. I'm searching for my source, but I'm quite sure the disciples would have first written down their writings in their native language.

And yes, James I was not a Roman Catholic. I should have said the King James (which is a catholic) Version.

That is again wrong. (LJ)

If I can show that the KJV teaches universalism, then my statement is correct, agreed?


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[Levi Jones]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

I believe the Scriptures to be inspired in their original languages – in our case – Hebrew and Greek, but not in English.

Didn't you just criticize the Masoretic text as being too Jewish? Why is the Hebrew now "inspired"?

What is wrong with wanting the Bible to be in the vernacular? What is the solution to your perceived dilemma?

Should we just quit reading the Bible and wait for God to tell us what He wants?

[KeruxR]

Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!"

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And you have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever that there are any errors in the KJV Bible. You've made the claim that there are, so the burden of proof lies with you, friend.

Haven't been given a chance either, have I?

Handy little gimmick there I see: make a claim that the KJV is the inspired word of God, and then impose the burden of proof that it isn't on others.

Who says the KJV is the inspired word God, you?

Show me the verse where the Bible says: "The KJV is the inspired word of God" and I'll forever hold my peace.

Even the KJV says: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God ...." And, in the original language, that was written about 1600 years before the KJV came out.

Reminds me of that saying we used to hear: "If the KJV was good enough for Paul, it's good enough for me." LOL

I think the burden of proof is on those who make your claim.

However, I will show, in the coming days, many of the errors in the KJV. And those errors will be my evidence that the KJV is not the inspired scriptures.

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