[davaca]

Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria

The Bible, including Jesus and the Resurrection, are historically proven fact. None of the false religions even mention the Resurrection, the single most important moment in history. Only God cares enough about the world to have His only begotten Son temporarily killed for our sins.

Jesus is a proven fact. Moses going out of egypt is a proven fact. There are, indeed, a lot of proven facts. However, the Bible also contains a lot of metaphors (the creation of earth) or details that where changed for some reason, like the sea splitting and a pilar of fire coming down upon the egyptians to stop them (That one was written by the Jew's high priest because the jews where, yet again, slaves somewhere... Babylon, I believe).

While a lot of the basic stories are hystorically correct,almost everything is writen by humans, and certainly not by some God. The only thing which I can agree on are the ten commandments. But, for example, the first testament. The first gospel was written in abouth the year 60, and the last on in abouth 100... So Jesus would be dead for 27 or 67 years, depending which one you're talking abouth. None of the writers ever met Jesus, and because the average age wasn't to high back then, they probably haven't met many people who actually had met Jesus. Their writtings are based on the few eyewithnesses who were still alive, some mysterious text called the Q-text which we don't know right now and other, loose fragments.

Of course, there where more than four gospels written, the non canonical gospels. The death sea scrolls, for example, or one abouth Jesus years as a child (that one is almost sure to be completely made up). There where more, but I doubt we'll ever find them all. Most are probably destroyed anyway. I hope you guys know that the only reason the ones that are in the Bible right now are in the Bible right now, is because they where chosen, I believe somewhere after the year 300... I somebody gives you a lot of stories abouth the same event, and you have to choose four that are right and others are wrong, I don't think there is a lot you have to base yourself upon.
All of this means that, despite the fact that Jesus lived and that he was an extraordinary man, not his whole story is a fact.

It's also like I'm wrong right now, but I believe that the ressurection is mentioned in the qur'an. After all, Jesus might not be considered to be the son of God in that book, but he supposed to be a pretty important prophet. I'm not sure, though... But of course, for the other 'false' religions, that isn't an important thing, after all, Jesus has nothing to do with them.

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe

Look, the argument of Islam and Mormonism is damn silly from their own view point friend; they all claim to worship the same God as the Christians do. This God is supposed to be all powerful, all knowing, active in the world and perfect. So according to Mohamed and Joseph Smith God is too dumb or doesn’t care so mere men could screw up His message The Bible so God felt the need to put out supplemental works. They undermine themselves with their own argument. If God is that dumb, weak or uncaring why worship Him?

For mormonism: You do realise Chrisianity started as what is today known as catholicism, right? You guys split off too... and for the Islam: It's a different religion. Mohamed has taken parts of both Judaism and christianity, but they don't even use the Bible. It's like a Jew saying that Jesus is nog important because he isn't mentioned in the torah (Which I believe is roughly the same as the old testament, right?)

And for the second part, I can again compare it to the Jews: Jesus came there, and basically start telling the word of God. There are still Jews around today, so I guess not everybody believed him... It's about the exact same thing. But for you Jesus is real, but don't forget that he lived quite some time ago.

Perhaps God thinks that his rules shouldn't be always exactly the same. I know that He is supposed to be all knowing, but mankind changes. We learn new things, we stop doing other things. As a lousy example, it would be useless if God let Jesus tell us what to do with video games; I think most people would have declared him insane because those didn't exist.

Another example: If you are the captain of a ship, you can't sail always to the east. For 200 miles that might be great, but then there is a storm, and even if you knew about this storm all along, going east was the best to do, but now it isn't anymore. The orders have to change.

Do you understand what I mean? Mankind changes, we discover new things, and let go of old things. If a God created us, he must have intended it that way, and he must know that after some changes the orders we reciever earlier are no longer correct, and so he sends a new prophet.

I know Jesus wasn't a regular prophet, so perhaps a lot had to change. after all, he did bring a huge change, Christianity is still the biggest religion in the world...