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eliot mayfield 06-19-2009 04:00 PM

The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
There's been talk about the Holocaust around here and I feel I need to correct some mistakes and assumptions. I've already said in another thread Hitler could be in Heaven. He was acting as part of God's plan. If he took Jesus into his heart, he's in Heaven, just like everyone of us can be. Nobody knows what happened in that bunker and if he killed himself or not.

The holocaust happened. My grandfather was in WW2 and he saw some of them. If you want to call my grandfather a liar we can arrange a place and time for you to do that to my face. Living in Europe I have seen some camps and there's just too many of them to be a conspiracy. Yes, millions died.

They died because God loves us. The holocaust happened so we would get Israel started again. God had to do this to get things ready for the second coming of Jesus. We were on the right track! George Bush knew God was guiding him. He told other leaders about it:

http://www.alternet.org/politics/140221

Quote:

In 2003 while lobbying leaders to put together the Coalition of the Willing, President Bush spoke to France's President Jacques Chirac. Bush wove a story about how the Biblical creatures Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East and how they must be defeated.
In the same year he spoke to Chirac, Bush had reportedly said to the Palestinian foreign minister that he was on "a mission from God" in launching the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and was receiving commands from the Lord.
There can be little doubt now that President Bush's reason for launching the war in Iraq was, for him, fundamentally religious. He was driven by his belief that the attack on Saddam's Iraq was the fulfilment of a Biblical prophesy in which he had been chosen to serve as the instrument of the Lord.

We are all working for the Lord and let us pray the second coming is soon. Remember to vote for a God driven candidate in all future elections so we can help achieve this goal in our life times!

God loves us and that's why there was a second world war, a first one and every other war! Do not pretend you have the ability to question God's plan! You must accept it.

TC Patriot 06-21-2009 10:24 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
"'And they the hunters should hunt them,' that will be the Jews. 'From every mountain and from every hill and from out of the holes of the rocks.' If that doesn't describe what Hitler did in the holocaust who can't see that?


Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says -- Jeremiah writing -- 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. Hitler was simply doing God's work.


Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.


Because God loves the Jews he had Hitler and other good Christians slay 6 million of them because they would not return to Israel. The lesson here is, DO WHAT GOD COMMANDS OR DIE! and then burn in hell for all eternity.:devil:

Wash O'Hanley 06-21-2009 10:29 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
I sincerely doubt there was any foul play in those concentration camps. How many Jews were rounded up in those things? How many people actually died? If we take into account that the average 7-day cruise ship has at least one death, I don't think it is far-fetched to believe that the 6 million Holocaust deaths were all a result of natural causes and blown out of proportion by the scare tactics and fear mongering of the Liberal Left.

James Hutchins 06-21-2009 10:35 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
So you are saying it really was not just careless work place safety habits at the German Wonder Bread factories?

If it was a genocide, why didn't the joos simply hide someplace other than the ovens at the factories. I don't know, it just does not seem very smart. You would of thought they would of hidden in their bank vaults with all their stolen money. No fires in there!

It is hard to believe that 6 million were killed, seems like it did not even make a dent.

eliot mayfield 06-21-2009 10:59 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
It saddens me to see two brothers fall for the liberal conspiracy like you two have. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

The liberals are the ones condemning Israel and trying to interfere with God's plan!!

You two had better run to your prayer closets and get on your knees, NOW!!

Did George Bush fail Israel? NO!

Do you deny God's plan?

Text books written by Republicans and available to all schoolchildren in nice Christian schools state the truth and that is millions of Jews were killed.

Do you deny the Bible and claim when God smote people it was due to accidents and faulty safety equipment?

How dare you pretend to think you know better than our soldiers who were there documenting it all! Do you not think one republican president since 1945 would have told us it was a mistake in accounting?

Brothers, God did what he did because he loves us all and wants us to be in heaven with him. Why do you want to delay the Second Coming?:(

James Hutchins 06-21-2009 11:05 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
All I know is there was nothing about this in the KJV Bible as the 'holocaust' as you call it occurred after 1611, if it really did. I go by what I hear and read. I guess what I do not understand is what difference it makes. Being none of these joos were True Christians, they were all doomed to Eternal Damnation in Hell anyway, that is for sure. So what difference does a day make?

eliot mayfield 06-21-2009 11:12 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Hutchins (Post 345873)
All I know is there was nothing about this in the KJV Bible as the 'holocaust' as you call it occurred after 1611, if it really did. I go by what I here and read. I guess what I do not understand is what difference it makes. Being none of these joos were True Christians, they were all doomed to Eternal Damnation in Hell anyway, that is for sure. So what difference does a day make?

It makes the difference only in the fact that it lead to the creation of the modern day Israel and that is a major step toward the Second Coming of Jesus!

Do you think the Demoncrats would have supported the effort to make Israel the power it is over a few accidents?
Yes, many things have occurred since 1611. But, those things are God's plan for us. It's through his love Jesus will come back, the sooner the better, and toss billions of people into Hell for failing to read and understand his loving words!!!
The Holocaust was just a sort of preview for what is coming up. Do you mean to diminish it's value by calling it accidents?

James Hutchins 06-21-2009 11:23 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Won't Israel still there even if there were no joos?

I just figured the democrats tolerated joos these days to get Streisand tickets.

Accidents happen, they are part of Gods will. No matter if it is by force of another or a banana peel, Gods invisible hand was at work. So you feel the Holocaust was a prequel, we will get a sequel. But the same people will not be in it.

This all quite a bit much for me to comprehend. I am a True Christian, I go by Gods word in the KJV1611 Bible. If it is not in the Good Book, then it is not for me to really speculate on.

Pastor Ezekiel 06-21-2009 11:29 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
You have to admit, the joos are world famous for being connivers and liars. It just seems like common sense to assume that they made up most of this "holocaust" story to gain a permanent badge of victimhood.

God does work in mysterious ways...:hmmm:

eliot mayfield 06-21-2009 11:31 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Hutchins (Post 345883)
Won't Israel still there even if there were no joos?

I just figured the democrats tolerated joos these days to get Streisand tickets.

Accidents happen, they are part of Gods will. No matter if it is by force of another or a banana peel, Gods invisible hand was at work. So you feel the Holocaust was a prequel, we will get a sequel. But the same people will not be in it.

This all quite a bit much for me to comprehend. I am a True Christian, I go by Gods word in the KJV1611 Bible. If it is not in the Good Book, then it is not for me to really speculate on.

It is in the book!
Quote:

Question: "What is the battle of Armageddon?"

Answer:
The word “Armageddon” comes from a Hebrew word Har-Magedone, which means “Mount Megiddo” and has become synonymous with the future battle in which God will intervene and destroy the armies of the Antichrist as predicted in biblical prophecy (Revelation 16:16; 20:1-3, 7-10). There will be a multitude of people engaged in the battle of Armageddon, as all the nations gather together to fight against Christ.

The exact location of the valley of Armageddon is unclear because there is no mountain called Meggido. However, since “Har” can also mean hill, the most likely location is the hill country surrounding the plain of Meggido, some sixty miles north of Jerusalem. More than two hundred battles have been fought in that region. The plain of Megiddo and the nearby plain of Esdraelon will be the focal point for the battle of Armadeggon, which will rage the entire length of Israel as far south as the Edomite city of Bozrah (Isaiah 63:1). The valley of Armageddon was famous for two great victories in Israel’s history: 1) Barak’s victory over the Canaanites (Judges 4:15) and 2) Gideon’s victory over the Midianites (Judges 7). Armageddon was also the site for two great tragedies: 1) the death of Saul and his sons (1 Samuel 31:8) and 2) the death of King Josiah (2 Kings 23:29-30; 2 Chronicles 35:22).

Because of this history, the valley of Armageddon became a symbol of the final conflict between God and the forces of evil. The word “Armageddon” only occurs in Revelation 16:16, “Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.” This speaks of the kings who are loyal to the Antichrist gathering together for a final assault on Israel. At Armageddon “the cup filled with the wine of the fury of [God’s] wrath” (Revelation 16:19) will be delivered, and the Antichrist and his followers will be overthrown and defeated. “.
http://www.gotquestions.org/battle-Armageddon.html

Ezekiel Bathfire 06-21-2009 11:31 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
I’m wondering if it is not possible for there to be accidents. One of the things I note is that every now and again, the keyboard will spell the word wrongly and I correct it. Now, I doubt that was part of God’s Plan – I mean, that milli-second? Did it change the world?

I am reminded of the transportation of the jews from France. Apparently, all in all there were over 200 of them invited to see new accommodation in Poland. On one occasion, the train broke down somewhere near the French border; the jews got out to have a walk round and unfortunately the Germans took advantage of the delay for rifle practice. IIRC, 3 people were quite badly winged.

These things happen, none of us are perfect. Yes, God has a plan, which will go forward and culminate in Armageddon but, IMHO, it’s a broad-brush on the canvas of life.

eliot mayfield 06-21-2009 11:33 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel (Post 345885)
You have to admit, the joos are world famous for being connivers and liars. It just seems like common sense to assume that they made up most of this "holocaust" story to gain a permanent badge of victimhood.

God does work in mysterious ways...:hmmm:

If it didn't happen George Bush would have told us about it!

Tertius The Scribe 06-21-2009 11:33 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Hutchins (Post 345883)
Won't Israel still there even if there were no joos?

I don't think so. Those Arabeki Islamofascists would snatch up as much land as they could get; they already took it from Jesus back in the 0000's! :angry:

James Hutchins 06-21-2009 11:36 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel (Post 345885)
You have to admit, the joos are world famous for being connivers and liars. It just seems like common sense to assume that they made up most of this "holocaust" story to gain a permanent badge of victimhood.

God does work in mysterious ways...:hmmm:

That has been my experience Pastor. I had a joo accountant once. I always had to pay more taxes and pay him to tell me that. Ever since I canceled fired upon him, I never owed any extra money. Then that time I go sued (still have a gag order) and the joo lawyer lied and I had to pay to repaint the synagogue. All I ever heard was 'poor me'. What a bunch of whiners. So because they cheat and lie, then when they get caught or have an accident they expect us to feel sorry for them.

James Hutchins 06-21-2009 11:39 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Question: "What is the battle of Armageddon?"

Answer: The word “Armageddon” comes from a Hebrew word Har-Magedone, which means “Mount Megiddo” and has become synonymous with the future battle in which God will intervene and destroy the armies of the Antichrist as predicted in biblical prophecy (Revelation 16:16; 20:1-3, 7-10). There will be a multitude of people engaged in the battle of Armageddon, as all the nations gather together to fight against Christ.

The exact location of the valley of Armageddon is unclear because there is no mountain called Meggido. However, since “Har” can also mean hill, the most likely location is the hill country surrounding the plain of Meggido, some sixty miles north of Jerusalem. More than two hundred battles have been fought in that region. The plain of Megiddo and the nearby plain of Esdraelon will be the focal point for the battle of Armadeggon, which will rage the entire length of Israel as far south as the Edomite city of Bozrah (Isaiah 63:1). The valley of Armageddon was famous for two great victories in Israel’s history: 1) Barak’s victory over the Canaanites (Judges 4:15) and 2) Gideon’s victory over the Midianites (Judges 7). Armageddon was also the site for two great tragedies: 1) the death of Saul and his sons (1 Samuel 31:8) and 2) the death of King Josiah (2 Kings 23:29-30; 2 Chronicles 35:22).

Because of this history, the valley of Armageddon became a symbol of the final conflict between God and the forces of evil. The word “Armageddon” only occurs in Revelation 16:16, “Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.” This speaks of the kings who are loyal to the Antichrist gathering together for a final assault on Israel. At Armageddon “the cup filled with the wine of the fury of [God’s] wrath” (Revelation 16:19) will be delivered, and the Antichrist and his followers will be overthrown and defeated. “.


I do not know geography that well but I though Germany was further than 60 miles north of Israel. And anyways, that was not in My Bible. You probably got that off of the Internet.

Rev. Jim Osborne 06-21-2009 11:39 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
You know, I sure as heck hope something happens over in Israel or Iran or one of them Mohammedist countries real soon, because I'm turning 69 this year and my doctor just told me I need to cut down on fat intake, lower my cholesterol and blood pressure, and my diabeetus :brimley: has skyrocketed out of control. I remember the good life when I was writing checks to Yamaha for my brand new ATCs way back in '77, but nowadays I'm writing checks (for the same amount) to Liberty Medical Supply for my diabeetus :brimley: testing supplies.

Brother Eliot is right in pointing out that God loves the world so much, he is willing to sacrifice some of us, so that the rest of us can have aeternal life with Jesus Christ. Radical atheists like to cry out: "If there is a God, why did he let six million Jews die?" A good Christian apologist will reply: "But that shows there is a God! He let six million unsaved Jews die instead of six million Bible-believing Baptists!" Truly these people lived in mockery of God for over 4000 years, and when God gave them His Son, they rejected Him and crucified Him. It was high time that God made an example of them to show what happens when you reject Christ as your Savior. To me, the fact that the Holocaust did happen is one of the strongest theistic arguments anyone can make.

eliot mayfield 06-21-2009 11:41 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Is there something in the water there? Has Obama drugged you all? It hurts me to see you turn away from God and towards the democratic party and feel soft to the enemies of the USA.

eliot mayfield 06-21-2009 11:44 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne (Post 345896)
You know, I sure as heck hope something happens over in Israel or Iran or one of them Mohammedist countries real soon, because I'm turning 69 this year and my doctor just told me I need to cut down on fat intake, lower my cholesterol and blood pressure, and my diabeetus :brimley: has skyrocketed out of control. I remember the good life when I was writing checks to Yamaha for my brand new ATCs way back in '77, but nowadays I'm writing checks (for the same amount) to Liberty Medical Supply for my diabeetus :brimley: testing supplies.

Brother Eliot is right in pointing out that God loves the world so much, he is willing to sacrifice some of us, so that the rest of us can have aeternal life with Jesus Christ. Radical atheists like to cry out: "If there is a God, why did he let six million Jews die?" A good Christian apologist will reply: "But that shows there is a God! He let six million unsaved Jews die instead of six million Bible-believing Baptists!" Truly these people lived in mockery of God for over 4000 years, and when God gave them His Son, they rejected Him and crucified Him. It was high time that God made an example of them to show what happens when you reject Christ as your Savior. To me, the fact that the Holocaust did happen is one of the strongest theistic arguments anyone can make.

I've been googling for Baptists killed in the holocaust and can't find even one. Plenty of jews, Jehovahs, homosexuals and other unsaved trash though. More proof God loves us and we are True Christians ™.

James Hutchins 06-21-2009 11:44 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire (Post 345888)
I’m wondering if it is not possible for there to be accidents. One of the things I note is that every now and again, the keyboard will spell the word wrongly and I correct it. Now, I doubt that was part of God’s Plan – I mean, that milli-second? Did it change the world?

I am reminded of the transportation of the jews from France. Apparently, all in all there were over 200 of them invited to see new accommodation in Poland. On one occasion, the train broke down somewhere near the French border; the jews got out to have a walk round and unfortunately the Germans took advantage of the delay for rifle practice. IIRC, 3 people were quite badly winged.

These things happen, none of us are perfect. Yes, God has a plan, which will go forward and culminate in Armageddon but, IMHO, it’s a broad-brush on the canvas of life.

Now see, that is how I understand stuff happens. I think too many people are into conspiracy theories. A rule I live by is "The simplest explanation is usually the right one". And the would be "God made it so". You cannot get much simpler than that.
I mean, you would think, after the first batch of joo brownies was made, the rest would of not followed suit. They had no choice as it was Gods will.

Rev. Jim Osborne 06-21-2009 11:45 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Hutchins (Post 345893)
That has been my experience Pastor. I had a joo accountant once. I always had to pay more taxes and pay him to tell me that. Ever since I canceled fired upon him, I never owed any extra money. Then that time I go sued (still have a gag order) and the joo lawyer lied and I had to pay to repaint the synagogue. All I ever heard was 'poor me'. What a bunch of whiners. So because they cheat and lie, then when they get caught or have an accident they expect up to feel sorry for them.

But see, Brother James, this is an excellent example of why the Holocaust happened. It makes a lot of sense for people to be so ticked off by Jewish greed, lies, deceit, manipulation, and trickery that I can perfectly well see normal everyday people rallying together and stuffing all these Jews into concentration camps. Now, I'm no Nazi apologist, let me make that clear, but Adolph Hitler unwittingly served the Lord by following His Plan. And, as a rejoinder, I can honestly sympathasize with Hitler on why he would want to corral them up like the rats they are.

Ezekiel Bathfire 06-21-2009 11:47 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eliot mayfield (Post 345898)
Is there something in the water there? Has Obama drugged you all? It hurts me to see you turn away from God and towards the democratic party and feel soft to the enemies of the USA.

Perhaps the Rev. Brother Osborne is perhaps counting the total deaths between 1941 and 1945 from all causes and universally. There was a lot of bombing you know.

James Hutchins 06-21-2009 11:50 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne (Post 345902)
But see, Brother James, this is an excellent example of why the Holocaust happened. It makes a lot of sense for people to be so ticked off by Jewish greed, lies, deceit, manipulation, and trickery that I can perfectly well see normal everyday people rallying together and stuffing all these Jews into concentration camps. Now, I'm no Nazi apologist, let me make that clear, but Adolph Hitler unwittingly served the Lord by following His Plan. And, as a rejoinder, I can honestly sympathasize with Hitler on why he would want to corral them up like the rats they are.

That makes perfect sense, thanks Reverend. :thumbsup: So why is the Holocaust spoken about like it was a bad thing, if it really happened? You'd figure instead, we'd have a holiday like Thanksgiving and eat bacon.

eliot mayfield 06-21-2009 11:50 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Hutchins (Post 345901)
Now see, that is how I understand stuff happens. I think too many people are into conspiracy theories. A rule I live by is "The simplest explanation is usually the right one". And the would be "God made it so". You cannot get much simpler than that.
I mean, you would think, after the first batch of joo brownies was made, the rest would of not followed suit. They had no choice as it was Gods will.

Exactly. Why try to deny it? God made it happen out of his love for all of us.
It's like 9/11, lot's of fools on the nets are trying to say George Bush blew up the World Trade centers!
Yet, we all saw them planes fly smack into them! It's the same with the Holocaust. People want to change history to suit their needs. God is good and he did what he did for good reasons.

Pastor Ezekiel 06-21-2009 11:56 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne (Post 345902)
But see, Brother James, this is an excellent example of why the Holocaust happened. It makes a lot of sense for people to be so ticked off by Jewish greed, lies, deceit, manipulation, and trickery that I can perfectly well see normal everyday people rallying together and stuffing all these Jews into concentration camps. Now, I'm no Nazi apologist, let me make that clear, but Adolph Hitler unwittingly served the Lord by following His Plan. And, as a rejoinder, I can honestly sympathasize with Hitler on why he would want to corral them up like the rats they are.

I hate that Hitler guy with all my True Christian™ heart, but not because he may (or may not have) killed a few joos. I hate Hitler because he was a papist ring-kisser (not a Christian) and he attacked God's favorite country (America!).

What you say is very wise Rev. Jim. God uses us as He sees fit. I've known of God to use queers, mudslimes and all manner of scum to further His Divine Plan. He may very well have used Hitler to thin out the overbreeding of the joos, gypsies and queers. You just never know with God...

Tertius The Scribe 06-21-2009 11:56 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eliot mayfield (Post 345900)
I've been googling for Baptists killed in the holocaust and can't find even one. Plenty of jews, Jehovahs, homosexuals and other unsaved trash though. More proof God loves us and we are True Christians ™.

Amen!

I think a lot of these deaths were caused because God doesn't like Youdoucheish or whatever; all them Kraut Joos speak it though! :angry:

Just because God punishes the Joos for worshipping that hippie Moses doesn't mean they have a right to be racist against us white people!

But apparently the Joos still don't get the simple fact that unless you turn, you burn! (And most Joos in the Holocaust did that twice! :lol:)

Rev. Jim Osborne 06-22-2009 12:04 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Well, I googled "Baptist died holocaust" and found nary a single example of one of us killed. Truly something as widespread and consuming as the Holocaust not getting just ONE Baptist shows there is a divine providence which is protecting us.

Here is a link to a site which discusses this same issue.

Quote:

Q. I had a guest this weekend that I asked this question to and he gave me an answer that really made my heart spin.
The question was, "The Jews that died in the holocaust, did they or are they going to Heaven?" His response was "No, they are all in hell because they were not saved in the glory of Jesus."

Well this gentleman was a Jew till he was brought to Christ and is now a Baptist minister in the ministry of converting Jews to Jesus.

I ask you the same question.

What of the many who died in the Holocaust, will they ever see the love of the Father?
A. Let me first begin by saying this is a complicated question that cannot be so easily answered.
He has a severe misunderstanding of the Lord and His ways and seems rather judgmental. But, let’s take a few things first. You say this gentleman was a Jew, but that is incorrect. He still is a Jew.
Israel as a nation (corporately) rejected the Messiah because they did not recognize Him.
By the first century they accepted rabbinical interpretations about the Messiah over what the Scriptures had said.
So, Yeshua comes along and He didn’t look like or act like what the Rabbis had said He would look and act like.
John 5.39-47 says that if they reject Moses (Scriptures), they will reject Him because he spoke of the Messiah. Now, the answer to any question is always in the question. So, I ask this, what of the many Gentiles that died in the Holocaust, did they or are they going to Heaven?
Gentiles who die in unbelief have the same fate as Jews because you must be born from above (John 3) to enter into salvation, to the Jew first (especially, because they were the first to know, and to whom much is given, much is required), then the Gentile.
I can tell you right now, if your friend is trying to win Jews to Jesus with his judgmental attitude he won’t be very successful.
He might convert a few to a denomination or a movement, but is that what the Lord means by "born again?" I think not. There is more to this than his generalized answer. So, lets get to the heart of the matter.
Israel had a responsibility, a covenantal calling, to follow the Lord and be a witness and a light of understanding to the Gentiles. When they obeyed, they were blessed, when they didn’t God got their attention. That calling has not been revoked and will be fulfilled in the Tribulation period.
That’s why the two witnesses will be Jewish, that’s why the 144,000 will be Jewish. The Holocaust and all the other problems Israel has encountered over the centuries is a warning to repent, but not just for Israel.
Your friend needs to remember things happen to the Jew first (especially, see above) then the Gentiles as the Apostle Paul points out, because they were the first to know the truth and had the Scriptures (Rom 3.1-2.) Let’s go to Luke 13.1-5 and I’m going to illustrate something.
Here, Yeshua gives a warning to repent and will quickly dispel their notion of calamity, a notion your friend and many others seem to share. Yeshua brings up a historical tragedy about some Galileans who were killed while offering sacrifices in the Temple by Pilate and asks if those Galileans were greater sinners because they were killed than other Galileans who weren’t.
Yeshua says "No" and then says it was a warning that if they did not repent they would likewise perish. Well, they did not repent and 40 years later millions were killed when Rome came and destroyed the Temple.
Then He gives another example of where a tower fell and killed 18 people and asks the same thing, were they greater sinners because they died? He again says "No" and warns them to repent or they would likewise perish.
Well, they did not listen and 40 years later not only one tower fell, but many towers fell in the city when Rome destroyed it. The bottom line is, tragedies happen and rather than be judgmental towards the victims we should be examining ourselves and take it as a warning that we need to be right with the Lord and repent of our sins or something worse will happen.
Like in the first century, not just a few people died but millions died because they did not recognize what the Lord was doing and saying in these events. What your friend doesn’t realize is that more Gentiles died in the Holocaust and World War II than Jews.
The word "holocaust" comes from the Greek "holos" which means "burned" and "kaustos" which means "an offering to a god." The Hebrew words for "burn’t offering" is "Korban Olah" and in Greek translations of the Bible Holocaust is used for korban olah.
In a way, those that died were wholly consumed by the fire of God’s judgment and according to God’s purposes as warning to us ,on whom the end of the age has come.
In conclusion, many, not all, Jews perished in unbelief in the holocaust, and they were forever lost, NOT because they were Jews but because they did not believe in the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
But many Jews perished in the United States at the same time and were lost for the same reason. It’s not where or how you perish that determines whether you are lost or not, but it is the condition of your soul with the Lord that determines that.
God chooses how your death may happen, but it is not necessarily an indication of our spiritual condition. It’s like when you get married. It’s not how you get to the wedding that determines whether you are married or not, it’s your heart and who’s waiting for you when you get there that determines it.
The same can be said for many Gentiles who died. Your friend said "they (the Jews) are all in hell" which I take issue with also, he didn’t know every person who did there was an unbeliever.
He should read some books about many Jewish believers who got caught up in it, as well as Gentiles. Like in the first century, Yeshua warned Jerusalem that the city of Jerusalem would be surrounded by Rome and when they saw that, they were to flee the city.
Some did, but many didn’t and got caught inside the walls.Well, in the 1930’s many saw Germany "surrounding" them and fled to the United States and survived, but millions didn’t or couldn’t and also got caught within the walls.
The Holocaust is awarning for the whole world to repent and come to the God of Israel through his Messiah because a greater holocaust is coming, and the false messiah will make Hitler look like a choir boy. This holocaust will not be centered in Europe, but be worldwide.
So I leave your friend with the same admonition. Do you suppose that those that died in the Holocaust were greater sinners than others because they suffered this fate? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will likewise perish. I hope this helps.
Ask your friend to contact me if he wants to talk about this further.


James Hutchins 06-22-2009 01:27 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Rev., nary a single Baptist, not even a one was killed by accident. Very interesting.

Heck, we have several turkey shoots around here every year. At least one person is dropped, accidents do happen. No way are there even one million people attending in total. And again, it is never a Baptist. So that leads me to think that all the joos that were cooked up were just God doing His cleaning. I got to say, it really does make a lot of sense. And because God is behind it, it must be good.

JennyD 06-22-2009 02:10 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne (Post 345896)
Brother Eliot is right in pointing out that God loves the world so much, he is willing to sacrifice some of us, so that the rest of us can have aeternal life with Jesus Christ. Radical atheists like to cry out: "If there is a God, why did he let six million Jews die?" A good Christian apologist will reply: "But that shows there is a God! He let six million unsaved Jews die instead of six million Bible-believing Baptists!"

I couldn't agree more, Rev. Osborne!

And now Obama is comparing the Holocaust to Israel's killing of a couple hundred Palestinian Islamofascists . . .

Quote:

In his speech, President Obama addressed the issue of the Holocaust head-on, saying "Six million Jews were killed — more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today."

But he quickly changed the subject, comparing Hitler’s genocide of the Jews to the Palestinian struggle.

"On the other hand," Obama said, as he transitioned from the Holocaust to the modern Middle East, "it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people — Muslims and Christians — have suffered in pursuit of a homeland."

That is because, "The problem really is not what Israel does, it’s that Israel is," Malcolm Hoenlein (executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations) says. "And they’re not ready to accept the existence of the Jewish theocracy."

In discussing the Palestinian refugee problem, Obama failed to mention the other refugee problem involving nearly a million Jews, Hoenlein says. At the time of the creation of the modern state of Israel in 1948, Jews populated all of the major Arab cities from Baghdad in the East to Casablanca in the West, much as Muslims have spread throughout Europe today.

Hoenlein notes that after modern Israel saw its rebirth, Jews "were driven out of Arab countries penniless, and some of their families had lived there for a thousand years, and yet there was no reference to them." He adds, "This is not a question of tit for tat. It’s a question of the realities that are communicated to a vast audience in the Arab Muslim world."

...

Asked if he sees Obama’s perceived tilt toward the Palestinians as reflecting some of the views of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jr., Obama’s former pastor who accused Israel of "ethnic cleansing" and "terrorism," Hoenlein says American Jews are concerned about Obama’s policies today.

"That issue has been discussed and debated, and I don’t know that it’s a relevant concern for right now," he says. "I do feel strongly about what the [current] policy will be."

Hoenlein says flatly, "People [Jews] are genuinely very concerned...about President Obama."

Wash O'Hanley 06-22-2009 05:32 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eliot mayfield (Post 345872)
It saddens me to see two brothers fall for the liberal conspiracy like you two have. You should be ashamed of yourselves...


Look, all I'm saying is that maybe those concentration camps weren't that bad. Every photo I've ever seen of Holocaust Jews showed a bunch of super-skinny people standing around digging holes and building things. In our shallow and image-conscious society with a struggling economy would this be such a bad thing? You lose 80 or 90 pounds in 3 months and fall to a healthy 75-pound-weight while learning practical architectural skills at the same time. The Holocaust was basically a rigorous weight-loss boot camp program and an ITT Tech education at the same time.

Auschwitz? More like Club Med.

WilliamJenningsBryan 06-22-2009 05:56 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
I've been wondering what "Arbeit macht frei" meant and your suggestion that there were Nazi fat farms certainly makes sense. After all, German food can be quite fattening – particularly their potato salad that is made with bacon. "Arbeit macht frei" probably means they did not have to listen to Richard Simmons.

TheDevilFarted! 06-22-2009 08:53 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Wow this thread and well most threads on this godforsaken website really lead me to believe that most "TRUE" (Quoted because I think most of you are just feeding your insane side) Christians are Freaking Psycho paths! I mean, come on to justify the killing of millions of people (notice I didn't say jews, because there were millions of Christians who died meaninglessly that day too), saying that the great lord did it is truly retarded. That's like saying that I'm gonna go kill a bunch of people in the name of the lord because he told me to....oh wait there have been plenty of people who have done that in the past...well nevermind...yay kill the jews...its the way to go...you know when this world comes to an end weather there is a god out there (Hopefully hes actually a good guy and loves everyone...not just the Christians) or not I'd like to say I was a good person even if I didnt want to kill the "inferior" religions and races of Christianity. Get over yourselves already, stop beating your woman, and judgeing your children, and for most of you come out of the damn closet already!:sarcasm:

Wide-Open 06-22-2009 09:02 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Welcome to God's favorite forum friend. You seem a bit angry, and your username doesn't sound very friendly. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilincarnate! (Post 346138)
killing of millions of people (notice I didn't say jews, because there were millions of Christians who died meaninglessly that day too)

Friend, although the krauts are known for their efficiency, it took them a bit longer than one day. Secondly, those were probably false Christians, so the Lord decided to smite them too. :glare:

Quote:

That's like saying that I'm gonna go kill a bunch of people in the name of the lord because he told me to....
It seems to me you have never actually cracked open a Bible. God tells us to smite lots of people, and often does so himself if we don't act fast enough.

Let's start with an easy one. God is a bit peeved off by the Egyptians. (and their livestock)

Exodus 12:29
And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

eliot mayfield 06-22-2009 10:07 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wash O'Hanley (Post 346046)
Look, all I'm saying is that maybe those concentration camps weren't that bad. Every photo I've ever seen of Holocaust Jews showed a bunch of super-skinny people standing around digging holes and building things. In our shallow and image-conscious society with a struggling economy would this be such a bad thing? You lose 80 or 90 pounds in 3 months and fall to a healthy 75-pound-weight while learning practical architectural skills at the same time. The Holocaust was basically a rigorous weight-loss boot camp program and an ITT Tech education at the same time.

Auschwitz? More like Club Med.

God doesn't like skinny people so no this wouldn't be a good thing:

Proverbs
13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat.

28:25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

Psalm:
92:14 They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing;

James Hutchins 06-22-2009 11:03 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wash O'Hanley (Post 346046)
Look, all I'm saying is that maybe those concentration camps weren't that bad. Every photo I've ever seen of Holocaust Jews showed a bunch of super-skinny people standing around digging holes and building things. In our shallow and image-conscious society with a struggling economy would this be such a bad thing? You lose 80 or 90 pounds in 3 months and fall to a healthy 75-pound-weight while learning practical architectural skills at the same time. The Holocaust was basically a rigorous weight-loss boot camp program and an ITT Tech education at the same time.

Auschwitz? More like Club Med.

Not only were people concentrating but there were on a weight loss (though those snappy striped designed clothes they wore are slimming) program, and it was all free??? I have seen a lot of joo women on Long Island that could use a good lesson in concentrating and loosing weight.
I understand too, they had free, cutting edge medical care. You cannot get that today unless your are a mex-i-can or nigra. The more I look into this, the more I have a harder and harder time trying to see the downside.

Wash O'Hanley 06-23-2009 03:02 AM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Look, I can tell you feel strongly about this Eliot, but facts are facts and while I'm not calling your grandfather a liar I am willing to point out that what he has to say is in direct contradiction with everything Dr. David Duke has to say. Yes, that's correct: Doctor David Duke. As in Ph.D. He has devoted his entire life to unbiasedly looking at the Holocaust and he has determined that it was a sham. Would someone with the title Doctor lie or change facts to further his agenda? I think not. This is a man who got his Ph.D from the Interregional Academy of Personnel Management in the Ukraine-- one of the most respected and highly regarded institutions of anti-semetic higher learning. It's like the Texas A&M of Universities that deny the Holocaust in that it is dedicated to research to disprove the Holocaust, 75% of its graduates find careers in Holocaust denial immediately following graduation and the football team gets its ass kicked every year by Oklahoma.

angels 06-23-2009 12:16 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eliot mayfield (Post 344307)
There's been talk about the Holocaust around here and I feel I need to correct some mistakes and assumptions. I've already said in another thread Hitler could be in Heaven. He was acting as part of God's plan. If he took Jesus into his heart, he's in Heaven, just like everyone of us can be. Nobody knows what happened in that bunker and if he killed himself or not.

The holocaust happened. My grandfather was in WW2 and he saw some of them. If you want to call my grandfather a liar we can arrange a place and time for you to do that to my face. Living in Europe I have seen some camps and there's just too many of them to be a conspiracy. Yes, millions died.

They died because God loves us. The holocaust happened so we would get Israel started again. God had to do this to get things ready for the second coming of Jesus. We were on the right track! George Bush knew God was guiding him. He told other leaders about it:

http://www.alternet.org/politics/140221



We are all working for the Lord and let us pray the second coming is soon. Remember to vote for a God driven candidate in all future elections so we can help achieve this goal in our life times!

God loves us and that's why there was a second world war, a first one and every other war! Do not pretend you have the ability to question God's plan! You must accept it.


well i'm afraid to say that being english i am suffering Gordon Brown as our leader,i can't believe god is behind that worm backed man,he is running our country into the ground along with the rest of the government...so given our election when it comes,i shall vote completely different.
do you really believe that hitler was working gods plan..our god is all loving,i am not believeing that god wanted or wants all the wars,or would indeed let a madman like hitler into heaven,infact the only place good enough for adolph is the fires of hell....

Vavoline Johnson 06-23-2009 01:48 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by angels (Post 346969)
well i'm afraid to say that being english i am suffering Gordon Brown as our leader,i can't believe god is behind that worm backed man,he is running our country into the ground along with the rest of the government...so given our election when it comes,i shall vote completely different.
do you really believe that hitler was working gods plan..our god is all loving,i am not believeing that god wanted or wants all the wars,or would indeed let a madman like hitler into heaven,infact the only place good enough for adolph is the fires of hell....

Listen here. It's all in Gawds plan for natural selection. Iffen he didn't kill dem Joos you be sitting in Hebrew school right this second talkin like you got phlem in your mouf and eatin stuff dat taste like cardboard and look like white doodys! Filter fish, my black ass!

JennyD 06-23-2009 08:07 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by angels (Post 346969)
do you really believe that hitler was working gods plan..our god is all loving,i am not believeing that god wanted or wants all the wars,or would indeed let a madman like hitler into heaven,infact the only place good enough for adolph is the fires of hell....

Where did you get this ridiculous idea that God is "all loving"?

The Bible clearly lays out that He hates all who sin against Him, and He will condemn nearly everyone to an eternity in Hell.

How is that "love"?

He will resurrect everyone from the dead at judgment; those who obeyed His Laws, to an eternity serving Him in Heaven. Those who didn't, to eternal life of torture.

Wouldn't it be "loving" to just leave the sinners dead, instead of resurrecting them for infinite punishment?

Missy, you have a mighty sick idea of what "love" is! :angry:

angels 06-23-2009 08:39 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyD (Post 347281)
Where did you get this ridiculous idea that God is "all loving"?

The Bible clearly lays out that He hates all who sin against Him, and He will condemn nearly everyone to an eternity in Hell.

How is that "love"?

He will resurrect everyone from the dead at judgment; those who obeyed His Laws, to an eternity serving Him in Heaven. Those who didn't, to eternal life of torture.

Wouldn't it be "loving" to just leave the sinners dead, instead of resurrecting them for infinite punishment?

Missy, you have a mighty sick idea of what "love" is! :angry:


You think so huh?.I don't think i'm the one who is talking out of my ears here.:angry:

James Hutchins 06-23-2009 08:57 PM

Re: The Holocaust, a part of God's divine plan
 
Angel, God is far from all loving. He is amazingly spiteful and cruel. All the more reason to live the life of a True Christian™. Then you have nothing to worry about.

I have never seen anyone talk out their ears. Was that hard to learn to do? Can you talk to two people at once?


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